Copyright 2002 FDCHeMedia, Inc. All Rights Reserved. FDCH Political Transcripts
October 8, 2002 Tuesday
TYPE:COMMITTEE HEARING
LENGTH: 9921 words
COMMITTEE:HOUSE ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE
SUBCOMMITTEE: MERCHANT MARINE OVERSIGHT PANEL
HEADLINE: U.S. REPRESENTATIVE DUNCAN HUNTER (R-CA) HOLDS HEARING
ON MARITIME SECURITY PROGRAM
SPEAKER: U.S. REPRESENTATIVE DUNCAN HUNTER (R-CA),
CHAIRMAN
LOCATION: WASHINGTON, D.C.
WITNESSES:
GENERAL JOHN W.
HANDY, USAF, COMMANDER IN CHIEF, U.S. TRANSPORTATION COMMAND
BODY:
HOUSE ARMED
SERVICES COMMITTEE: SPECIAL OVERSIGHT PANEL ON THE MERCHANT MARINE
HOLDS A HEARING ON THE MARITIME SECURITY PROGRAM
OCTOBER 8, 2002
SPEAKERS: U.S. REPRESENTATIVE DUNCAN
HUNTER (R-CA) CHAIRMAN U.S. REPRESENTATIVE WALTER JONES
(R-NC) U.S. REPRESENTATIVE CURT WELDON (R-PA) U.S.
REPRESENTATIVE JIM SAXTON (R-NJ) U.S. REPRESENTATIVE ANDER CRENSHAW
(R-FL) U.S. REPRESENTATIVE JO ANN DAVIS (R-VA)
U.S. REPRESENTATIVE THOMAS H. ALLEN (D-ME) RANKING
MEMBER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE GENE TAYLOR (D-MS) U.S.
REPRESENTATIVE ADAM SMITH (D-WA) U.S. REPRESENTATIVE JAMES H.
MALONEY (D-CT)
*
HUNTER: The hearing will come to order. My
opening remarks will be brief. However, before we address the business before
this panel, which is consideration of the military's commercial sealift
requirements under a new maritime security program, I'd like
to extend a warm welcome to our witness today, General John Handy, commander-in-
chief, United States Transportation Command.
Thank you
very much, General Handy, for being with us and spending some valuable time with
the panel today. We appreciate you.
HANDY: Thank you,
sir.
HUNTER: This is the third in a series of hearings
being held by the panel that will lead to a reauthorization of a new maritime security program. At the first hearing, the panel heard
from current vessel operators, as well as the so-called section 2 citizens.
Frankly, I think many of us learned a great deal at that hearing.
At some point, I'm convinced, we will come up with a
legislative solution that will address some of the issues raised at the
hearing.
At the second hearing, we heard from witnesses
representing both large and small shipbuilding interests. Since that hearing,
I've started to see some creative financing proposals that offer us a realistic
opportunity to have a shipbuilding component in any new MSP reauthorization. My
personal view is that we can reach agreement on a shipbuilding component without
jeopardizing the operational component of the new bill.
After hearing from General Handy today on DOD's MSP sealift
requirements, I will ask the Department of Transportation and the Maritime
Administration to appear before us and present their proposal for a
reauthorization of MSP. Just as important as their appearance and legislative
suggestions will be their commitment to pursue funding for a program in this
upcoming fiscal year.
It's my goal, after working with
and getting the agreement of the other members of the panel, to have a
comprehensive legislative proposal ready for markup early next year and attach
it to the FY '04 defense authorization bill. And before I recognize our
witnesses, I'd like to recognize, at this point, the distinguished ranking
member of this panel, the Honorable Tom Allen of Maine, for any comments he
might have.
ALLEN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I simply
want to say how much I appreciate your holding this hearing and to welcome
General Handy. We're very pleased to have you here. I look forward to your
testimony.
HANDY: Thank you, sir.
HUNTER: Thank you very much, Mr. Allen.
General Handy, it's a beautiful morning outside. Welcome.
HANDY: Gorgeous, thank you.
HUNTER: And we look forward to your testimony.
HANDY: Certainly, sir. You have my statement for the record.
HUNTER: And without objection, it will be entered into the
record.
HANDY: Thank you very much. In the interest of
time as well, I'm ready for any questions.
HUNTER:
Super.
(LAUGHTER)
Well, in
that case, what do you got, General Handy? Give us your inventory of ships. And
tell us what you need and tell us how you're going to beat up that old White
House to keep reauthorizing this MSP program.
HANDY:
Right now . . .
HUNTER: You may prefer to read your
statement, really.
(LAUGHTER)
HANDY: The question, as we've discussed many times, and I'll just run
down the current MSP that we have. We have 47 vehicles -- vessels -- 36 of which
are break bulk; three tankers -- I'm sorry, I'm looking at the PREPO. We have 11
LMSRs, eight FSSs, 76 RRF vessels that are our total ship requirement.
We have another -- we have 10 of those LMSRs currently in
our possession. The eleventh one will be delivered in the February/March
timeframe of '03.
In our PREPO ships, which is another
aspect of our requirement, we have 36 vessels; 23 of them are RO/ROs, six
container ammo ships, two container sustainment ships, one crane, one break bulk
and three tankers that are in the PREPO business.
Further complicating those numbers are the service breakouts. But it's
important to see how the service used these vehicles, 13 of which are Army
prepo, 15 are in support of the U.S. Marine Corps, four Air Force all-container,
one Navy, which is break bulk ammo and three DLA tankers that are out there.
Now in the MSP, we have 47 ships currently signed up. And
would you like a breakout of those ships as well?
HUNTER: Sure, yeah.
HANDY: Right now, of the
47 ships -- let me give you the exact breakout -- they are: 38 container, eight
roll on, roll off and one LASH -- that's a lighter aboard ship vessel -- for a
total of 47. Our requirement, depending upon scenario and what moves, surface or
air, is somewhere between 50 and 60 ships, depending upon the scenario. And
that's a square footage requirement.
We feel fairly
comfortable at today's 47. But that was derived by virtue of the amount of money
in the original MSP authorization in '96.
And so our
goal would be somewhere closer to the 50 to 60 ships would make us certainly a
more viable program as we look to the future.
HUNTER:
Give me your feeling, in terms of the mix. Are you going to give a prepared
statement? Or do you want us to jump right into questions?
HANDY: Questions.
HUNTER: You just laid out a
couple of them here. What do you feel about the mix?
HANDY: Well, right now, I think the mix is reasonable. We certainly are
focused on dry cargo more than we are tankers. MSP is a dry cargo initiative.
The mix, I think, for what we have today, is certainly a
-- you know, suits us. I would not want to see it change dramatically in the
downward side. I certainly could endorse increasing capability to get closer to
the 60-ship number that we have targeted for you.
HUNTER: Okay. Let me ask you -- go to another question that is on our
minds since we've been thinking of some creative ways to maintain the
shipbuilding base in this country and the Title 11 program. One idea was to give
a -- and we're contemplating this right now -- to give a preference to
applicants for Title 11 who would sign up for the MSP program. Basically, it's
analogous to becoming a reservist in exchange for a benefit upfront -- that is,
a loan guarantee on your construction.
What do you
think about that?
HANDY: Well, I think that any program
that would enhance the warfighter's capability to get resources moved around the
world is certainly one that we would stand up and support.
HUNTER: So if you need money now to build something, and you would be
willing to sign up for 20 years at no annual payment for MSP in return for loan
guarantees for a particular building program and assuming that you're building a
vessel that's militarily useful, that would be something you think would be a
good creative mechanism to use to make Title 11 work, as well as provide MSP
resources basically at no cost to the MSP program?
HANDY: Sir, we would be . . .
HUNTER: You
understand what I'm talking about?
HANDY: Yes, sir.
Sure do.
HUNTER: You're going to build a ship where
you're trying to get a Title 11 loan guarantee. And we say, "General Handy,
that's good."
Your company wants to build a couple of
ships and they're going to make a certain leverage drawdown on the loan
guarantee program. And we've got a lot of applicants standing in line. But your
particular ship, you're willing to sign up -- let's assume it's a militarily
useful ship and perhaps not a love boat or some other boat that's not as
militarily relevant, something we can use.
You would
say, in return for this loan guarantee, for having some priority in the loan
guarantee, "I'm willing to commit this ship to 20 years in the MSP program." And
if you average that out at what we project may be $3 million or so per year,
that you're giving us a then-year benefit, if you will, to the U.S. government,
of $60 million. It's not a present value, but that's a then-year value.
And that might be a strong inducement for the U.S.
government to give you the loan guarantee over another builder who is not
willing to sign up for MSP. Now does that sound like a reasonable recruiting
tool, if you will, for Title 11 and for MSP?
HANDY:
Well, certainly . . .
HUNTER: You understand what I'm
talking about?
HANDY: Oh yes, sir. I clearly
understand.
HUNTER: What do you think?
HANDY: Well, I think anything that we can come up with that brings
industry to the table, that offers adequate shipping for the DOD needs, ought to
be examined very closely. And any financial hook that we can put into a program
that helps mitigate some of the costs that we have today, then we would
certainly be in support of.
HUNTER: Okay.
Mr. Allen?
ALLEN: Thank you, Mr.
Chairman.
General, we've had a fair bit of testimony
here in the past about the section 2 citizenship issue. And I wondered if you
would briefly discuss your views about that issue, particularly whether you're
comfortable with current procedures or not? And I also wanted to ask whether DOD
has any separate security agreements with other U.S. flag carriers, independent
of the MSP program?
HANDY: With regards to the section
2 or documentation citizen, I would tell you that, certainly based upon our
lawyers' advice and my personal experience there at TRANSCOM, we are equally
supported by both sectors. We have seen no shortfall in support at all. So I can
certainly address that.
I'm also informed that I have
the same legal capability over documentation citizens and section 2 citizens
with regards to exercising either MSP or VISA requirements. And so the way the
arrangements are written, we don't feel, from our perspective, that there is
reason to treat one any different from the other. And that has been proven over
time.
It is certainly -- I'd have to take for the
record the last part of your question because I don't know what SSAs that might
be written. I can address SSAs which typically are designed to allow us to have
some of our classified conversations with the industry that is not shared with
any non-U.S. citizens. And so that's the nature of SSAs, is to allow us to
communicate with each other about some of the unique DOD requirements or
concerns that are shareable between us and other U.S. citizens.
ALLEN: Just one other. I'm wondering if we have -- when we think about
our activation needs, you discussed briefly at the beginning, do we have the
mariner pool? Do we have the men and women that we need to, if we have an
activation of between -- you know, around 50 ships, are the people there?
HANDY: Well, that is a subject of some concern for us and
that I think, as a nation, we ought to be concerned about our mariner pool. That
is sort of a flat, broad statement. But I think it's absolutely accurate.
As we look at the numbers, we're concerned that today we
probably have -- and I have to say probably because we can't say for certain --
we should have the mariners that we need to operate, the ships that we would
activate, as well as the commercial market that would continue during a time of
conflict. But that number is predicted. And indications are, over time, that it
is continuing to decline.
And so as we look out into
the future, a lot of the discussions about MSP reauthorization ultimately have
an impact on mariner availability. The lack of viable U.S. shipping determines
the success or viability of the mariner pool. And so we're concerned, as we look
into the future, about the numbers of mariners that might be out there and
useful to us.
ALLEN: Do you detect any variation in the
size of that pool, based just on trends in the economy? Does the pool grow
larger if the economy softens a bit? I mean the global economy now, not just the
U.S. Or is that hard to tell?
HANDY: I have no
experience that gives me any insights into the health of the economy and the
mariner pool. Most of what we see is, as the U.S. flag shipping numbers of ships
have declined over time, so have the obvious, the mariner pool that goes along
with it.
And so that seems to be the key. And
certainly, you could extend that statement and say, "Well, that certainly may be
determined by economy." But I don't have any unique insights into ups or downs
and what it might do to the mariner pool.
ALLEN: Okay,
good. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
HUNTER: Thank you.
Mr. Saxton?
SAXTON: General Handy, on the subject of section 2 and
documentation citizens, in the last hearing, we had a lengthy discussion. And
the basis of the discussion was that when you and TRANSCOM have a need for MSP
ships, you have to be certain that they're going to be there. And to that
extent, there was a long discussion about whether or not a situation without
section 2 ownership, or section 2 organization, would permit us to be certain
that they would be there.
In your testimony, you say,
"Both section 2 and documentation citizens must execute the same contingency
contracts with DOD committing vessels to VISA Stage III and thereby assuring us
we have access to their vessels." That is a very meaningful statement on your
part.
Can you therefore discuss the requirements that
you have, in terms of -- or the assurance that you have, in terms of both
section 2 and documentation vessels being available?
HANDY: We clearly have the same legal capabilities with regards to
reaching out and acquiring those ships, regardless of section 2 or documentation
citizen status. That, certainly by agreement and according to our legal staffs,
no difference at all.
Now you could -- I mean, there
are all sorts of scenarios that could be run. But on the face of the legal
capabilities we have as a DOD and specifically those of us at TRANSCOM are able
to deal with and treat both equally and have the same legal capabilities with
regards to both, just as in the statement.
SAXTON: And
our long discussion that I referred to in the last hearing was about what if
section 2 provisions went away in MSP? Would that raise concerns for you?
HANDY: Well, I'd turn it around a little bit. And I'd say
that the documentation citizen piece allows us to get some, you know, small
number of ships. The section 2 provisions would certainly raise some concern. I
mean, could I assume by your question that everyone would be a documentation
citizen then?
SAXTON: In order to maintain 47 ships, or
the appropriate number, I would suppose they would have to be.
HANDY: You could see a scenario that, some time in the future, that
might happen. I would prefer seeing a very strong capability for section 2, as
well as documentation citizen within any reauthorized MSP. I would certainly
favor the flexibility of going on the market and being able to deal with both
types of companies.
SAXTON: This is a fairly
complicated issue. I understand that documentation citizens are defined as those
companies that have 51 percent or more American stockholder, U.S. stockholder
participation?
HANDY: That's true. And as we press to
test on the button of what they actually are, we find that who physically, who
really owns the ship, in accordance with Coast Guard registry, exceeds those
requirements. So if there's anything, if there's any measure of confidence in
who you're dealing with, for the most part, we are still dealing with majority
stockholders that are exclusively U.S. owned.
HUNTER:
Excuse me? If the gentleman would yield for a second?
General Handy, I think he was asking about documentation citizens.
Those can be 100 percent owned by foreign ownership, according to our -- the
stock of the particular company -- according to our facts here. I think you said
that it would be 51 percent U.S. That's a section 2 citizen, isn't it?
HANDY: I will make sure and give you exactly.
HUNTER: Okay, I think that's how it is. Section 2 citizen,
51 percent American stock ownership; documentation citizen can be 100 percent
foreign stock ownership. And if I'm wrong, I blame it on Rusty (ph).
(LAUGHTER)
(UNKNOWN): That's what
staff is for.
(LAUGHTER)
HANDY: There is a subtlety that we're talking about stockholders and
composition of the board.
HUNTER: Well, that's not a
subtlety. That's two different factors. Tell you what, why don't we walk down
through the -- if the gentleman would yield? Let's walk down through this thing
so we're all kind of on the same sheet of paper, because this is kind of a
complex thing.
Stock ownership, section 2 citizen,
requires 51 percent of the stock has to be owned by U.S. citizens. That's a
section 2.
With respect to the documentation
citizenship, it's no set requirement. Stock can be 100 percent foreign owned.
With respect to makeup of the board of directors, in both cases, a majority must
be U.S. citizens. The CEO must be U.S. citizens, the chairman of the board, U.S.
citizens, et cetera.
So the difference is the stock
ownership. That's at least what I see is primarily the difference.
HANDY: That's correct.
HUNTER:
Any addendums to that?
HANDY: No, sir.
HUNTER: Okay. Now I think Mr. Saxton asked this very important
question, which kind of goes to the heart, the essence of this, the citizenship
issue. And that is that you've said you talked to your lawyers. And by golly,
you've got legal rights. You've got contractual rights.
And we companies which intentionally and deliberately break contracts
all the time because they're willing to pay the breach of contract costs.
Actually, that's a part of doing business that is kin to that particular action
that they are contemplating because it's economically feasible to break
contracts. And people do that all the time.
Now there's
remedy for that. It usually is spelled out in terms of dollars.
But they calculate that on a daily basis. Thousands of companies around
the world, including U.S. companies, breach contracts knowing they're going to
have to pay.
Our problem is, when you're talking about
U.S. ships that are going to have to be used to win a war and to save lives,
it's little solace that the lawyers ultimately are going to bring you a nice
check for the U.S. Treasury against this shipping company because they breached
the contract.
So the key here, I think, is reliability
and control. And the aspect of having a ship 75 percent, 80 percent, 100 percent
owned by the citizens of another country, which may have a major conflict with
your foreign policy that those ships are involved in.
And, you know, I hearkened back in one of our earlier hearings to the
time when I was in Vietnam, I remember we were still -- Britain, at the time,
one of our greatest allies, was supplying North Vietnam and moving ships through
Haiphong, carrying war materiel that was going to be used to kill Americans on
the battlefield.
So you often have, even with countries
that turn out in other scenarios to be extremely close to you, you have a
conflict of foreign policy. So I think that's -- if we rephrase, I think, Mr.
Saxton's very important question, we know you can rely on you've got a great
piece of paper. And by golly, at some point, you're going to collect because
your lawyers tell you that you have a good breach of contract action.
The real question is: does that breach of contract action
that you have, does that contract that you have with a non-U.S. citizen, does
that translate into reliability for the U.S. warfighter? That's the question.
And that means that that ship will always be there, that there's no chance for
it to be retrieved and there is absolutely the same degree of security as if
that stock was American owned.
That's the question.
HANDY: And the key, I would say, is history shows that we
have had the same assurances and reliability for section 2 and documentation
citizens.
HUNTER: Well, every contract gives you
assurances. I mean, that's what a contract is. It's not only assurances, but
it's legal assurances that I'm going to do -- that I'm going to perform a
certain function as the contracting party.
That doesn't
mean that I might not break that contract for my convenience, knowing that I'm
going to have to pay some damage. But there's a different standard for the U.S.
government, which needs ships in time of war, than for a commercial entity,
which can rely on the fact that they can receive dollar damages if the contract
is breached.
But what I'm asking you, and I think the
essence of what the committee would ask you is: do you have the same degree, do
you think that that contract with a company that may be 100 percent foreign
owned -- owned -- gives you the same degree of reliability as a company that is
owned by Americans? That's the question.
HANDY: Well,
aside -- I could say I certainly am more comfortable with a totally U.S.-owned
company. I mean, there is no question in my mind that, from the scenario you
describe, I would be far more comfortable with a U.S. company. It would be
impossible for me to argue that case simply on a written agreement or anything
else that we have. I mean, I'd have to absolutely agree with you.
What I am testifying to is that, under our current
agreements . . .
HUNTER: Well, you're testifying to
that, too.
HANDY: Yes, sir. I realize that.
The key is, I can't write a totally, as you point out,
locked tight agreement that can't be breached. I mean, somebody can breach any
sort of agreement that we might have. And there are certainly more assurances,
more guarantees, more comfort in dealing with a totally U.S-owned shipping
industry.
The problem we have is that the sufficiency
of the totally owned U.S. industry is not out there today. And that's the
problem that we deal with.
And so we find ourselves in
a position, as we did in '96 with the original MSP, that section 2 and
documentation citizen agreements allow us to operate successfully since then
under this agreement and have assurances to have access to those ships. So it
may not be the most comfortable position to be in, as you accurately point out,
but it is certainly one that has proven itself viable for us in the DOD to
date.
MALONEY: Mr. Chairman?
HUNTER: I'll tell you what. I've taken Mr. Saxton's time. So I've got
to yield back to Mr. Saxton. But he asked kind of the key question.
And Mr. Saxton, I apologize for jumping in. But you kind
of hit the essence of the hearing. Then we'll go -- then, if Mr. Saxton wants to
yield to Mr. Maloney. . .
SAXTON: If Mr. Maloney has a
point that he wants to make. . .
MALONEY: I would -- on
my time or Mr. Saxton's time?
HUNTER: No, go ahead. If
it's okay with Mr. Saxton, go ahead.
MALONEY: I'd just
like to follow up your question. What the chairman is getting at is the issue of
remedies under the contract. And we're having a discussion here assuming that
they are financial remedies.
Are there in-rem (ph)
remedies? In other words, are there -- does the contract allow you to seize the
ship if, in fact, you need it? Or is the remedy only that you get paid back?
What does the contract, in fact, provide in terms of your ability to self-assure
that that ship is available when it's needed?
HANDY:
Well, again, part of the difficulty is the scenario. I mean, you could easily
say that a ship could be seized. We have access. We have guarantees that we can
physically take the ship.
The issue is it can be
anywhere that is not accessible to you. And so we rely on the legal guarantees
and the agreements with each of the ship management companies that these ships
will be made available to us when we need them.
MALONEY: But the contract does provide you those non-monetary remedies?
You can, in fact, take the ship if you can get your hands on it?
HANDY: Yes, sir.
MALONEY: Okay. Thank you.
SAXTON: Let me just reclaim my time for one final
question.
HUNTER: I think your time is up, Mr.
Saxton.
(LAUGHTER)
Rusty (ph)
said.
(LAUGHTER)
SAXTON:
Between the last hearing and today, I've had visits from -- visits from and with
a variety of people. And one of the conversations that I had with Maersk
Sealand, I walked away from thinking, "Well, they've got a real point."
Can you discuss with us -- can you justify a position that
says that Maersk Sealand and other foreign-owned shipping companies, why do they
believe that section 2 citizen provisions are not necessary/
HANDY: Gosh, it would be really hard for me -- and perhaps even
inappropriate, sir -- to try to think why any one of the companies that we deal
with would have a position. I mean, I would quickly find myself trying to get
inside their minds or defend a position that they are taking. And I . . .
SAXTON: I understand.
HANDY: If I
could defer it, I would rather let them speak for themselves on those sorts of
points.
SAXTON: I'm being coached.
HUNTER: We've got a joint issue here.
SAXTON:
Mr. Hunter and I are both very interested in a related issue, and that's fast
ship.
HANDY: The company specifically? Fast Ship, Inc
or fast ships?
SAXTON: The concept.
HANDY: Okay.
SAXTON: It seems like the concept
of building a 900-foot or whatever ship that can do 38 to 40 knots has a lot of
appeal. Getting where we need to get faster, more efficiently, less ships --
more expensive ships, but less ships.
What do you think
about the concept of fast ship? And what do you think about expanding MSP to
include fast ships or including them in the present program?
HANDY: Certainly, one of the things that we do is watch technology very
carefully and closely. And we are very familiar with the current concept of fast
ship, as well as HSV/TSV types of ships, which are fast ferry, we are also
looking at. The latter, we are more focused on intercoastal, as opposed to open
ocean/over ocean carriers.
We are watching the fast
ship development very carefully, certainly the one you're referring to. A ship
that is roughly 850 feet long to 900 feet that could do 38 knots is an
interesting construct.
The bottom line, from our
perspective, is it has to be militarily useful and that is multiport capable,
draft considerations in the ports that we operate in the world that oftentimes
are very constrained. We are looking for, frankly, very high speed.
Right now, we have fast sealift ships that carry
considerably more than the current designed fast ship. They're only able to do
24 to 26 knots.
And so as we look at militarily useful,
the cost differential for current ships versus next generation fast ships, we
would like to see a leap in capability that doesn't result in a smaller
capability or a constrained militarily useful. And so we're looking for
everything that industry can produce that I emphasize militarily useful --
multiport, preferably not a deep draft ship. So we're watching that with a lot
of interest because it certainly is a predictor of what we might be able to
develop as time goes on.
SAXTON: Does the fast ship
design that exists in the company up in Philadelphia, does that have some of the
problems that you just mentioned?
HANDY: As I
understand the current option, it's a ship that is about -- it's smaller than
what our current capability is. And it's designed primarily for CONUS to
Cherbourg, France, fast capability in fixed port operations.
And that is certainly one that we have to ask a lot more questions
about what does that fixed port mean and how militarily useful that might be. Is
it capable of going to anywhere in the world, for example, and being able to
offload, onload military unique cargo?
The things that
we ship by ship typically are very heavy, bulky sorts of things and lots of
containers. So it just depends on the ultimate design of the ship that they come
up with and how flexible it is.
SAXTON: Thank you.
HUNTER: I'm going to go to Mr. Taylor next. But I think
your last statement kind of begs the question as to -- one way, you know, one
thing we're trying to do, in the next couple of years here, is actually do
things. And one of the ways you can get things built is through the Title 11
program.
HANDY: Right.
HUNTER:
It gives you enormous leverage. From what I gather, what you've said is it is in
the interest of the country to have ships built under Title 11 that are
militarily useful. And if you can get ships that can get there and get things
there quickly, at the start of a conflict, for example, that's another advantage
that we should look for.
Is that accurate?
HANDY: Absolutely.
HUNTER: Well,
do you think it makes sense to build those conditions into the Title 11
program?
HANDY: I would certainly suggest that any
program involving Title 11 ought to include military useful characteristics to
encourage those capabilities in the industry.
HUNTER:
Okay.
Mr. Taylor?
TAYLOR:
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
General, I'm one of the ones
who has some hesitation about the idea of a foreign entity owning the ships that
our nation is relying upon. I think it leads to a lot of unintended
consequences. And I think part of that is the declining mariner pool to foreign
owners that are more inclined to hire folks from other countries where they will
work for less money. It's just the way of the world.
There's a related situation going on that I was wondering if you were
aware of. And that is, one of the things that we can count on for our mariner
pool has been the coast-wide trade, even though they're working on offshore
supply boats and oceangoing tugboats, some of these vessels are very large. An
unlimited master's license is an unlimited master's license, whether he's
practicing on an offshore supply boat or a supertanker.
Something that's going on -- in fact, the comment period, I believe,
ends today or tomorrow -- is there was recently an outfit. And I believe the
name was Neighbors Drilling Company (ph). And they, like some other corporations
-- Stanley Tool comes to mind -- have decided that they sure like all the
benefits of being Americans, but they don't like paying American taxes.
So they have gone through what I believe is called an
inversion. Using the '96 Coast Guard Authorization Act, which was intended to
allow people to be able to finance their vessels anywhere in the world to get
the lowest rate, they're now chartering themselves as a Bahama corporation and
saying, "No, that's just the company that's loaning us money." But they want to
turn around and participate in the Jones Act, which is for U.S. flagged, U.S.
owned, U.S. made, U.S. crew.
Since I would think that
part of the labor pool that you're going to depend upon if there is ever a real
national mobilization would include inland towing, would include offshore supply
boats, would include coastal tugs of that nature, for your immediate ramp-up,
and since if this is allowed to continue and become the norm, I see this as
turning, in effect, the end of the Jones Act, where we can, in effect, be having
Mexican tugboats going up and down the Mississippi River, where we could be
having Bahamian coastal freighters going from port to port in the United
States.
I was wondering if your agency has weighed in
at all on this comment period? Because I do know the Coast Guard is making
comments. I do know the vice commandant is coming to see me sometime today, as
I'm going to weigh in on this.
But since I think it
effects very much so your ramp-up labor pool, I was wondering if you were a)
aware of it and b) had taken the time to say anything?
HANDY: No. Certainly, I'm pleased that you've mentioned that. It is
something that we're not aware of. And I would have the same concerns that you
do.
TAYLOR: May I make this request of you?
HANDY: Absolutely.
TAYLOR: I'm
sure, like everything else in government, there is always a provision for an
extension of remarks, but I would very much like your agency to take a look at
this because I am concerned at the loss of our merchant mariners. But in the
back of my mind, coming from -- having spent some time on the Mississippi River
and having a lot of friends in the offshore supply boat business, at least in
the back of my mind, I'm always aware that we have the backup of these guys.
We take them off a 200-foot offshore supply boat and put
them on an 800-foot tanker. We take them off an inland tow boat and put them on
one of the RO/RO ships.
But we could very well lose
that backup pool of labor if this is allowed to go through. And the Coast Guard
is putting those comments together right now. And I do see this as unraveling
that and just having all sorts of horrible, unintended consequences for our
nation.
So I would very much like your guys to take a
look at it. And I would very much like to hear their thoughts on that.
HANDY: We'll do that. And we will forward to you our
response.
TAYLOR: I would hope you would also forward
that on to the commandant.
Second question is, I read
with interest -- and all I got was the local paper back home, which is truly a
local paper. For the one- quarter page of international news, they mentioned the
French tanker that caught on fire.
Was that an attack?
Was that a fire? What do you know of this?
Because,
going back to the asymmetrical threats that we have been so thoroughly taught by
the folks from the DOD that is the most likely form of attack against our
country and given that, as you mentioned, the big, medium-speed RO/ROs carry
such a large portion -- each one of those ships carries such a large portion --
of an armored brigade or an Army division on board and so each one of them would
represent a huge loss if we lost even one of them, to what extent are we
planning on protecting those assets as they are transiting?
I don't think we had anything like convoys during the Gulf War. But I'm
curious to hear your thoughts on this because I am concerned, based on what
might have happened to that French tanker, about the vulnerability of these
cargo ships that we are sending to the Middle East.
HANDY: First part of your question, I don't have any update, other than
what we've seen in the media on what happened to the French tanker. We're still
obviously very, very watchful of the results of the investigation because we,
too, have a great deal of our shipping that transits that area.
We do have self-protection measures. We do and have, over the last year
particularly, added capabilities aboard our ships and continue to add
capabilities in the budget cycles this year, as well as in the near years, to
increase that capability.
In spite of that, I will tell
you that it would be naive to not have these kinds of fears. In spite of
everything that we know that we can do, in spite of measures taken, we still are
very concerned about shipping, not just in that part of the world, but in any
part of the world where we have U.S. shipping, especially DOD cargo
concerned.
And we are taking every measure we possibly
can to mitigate those threats, both in route as well as at the ports, both here
in CONUS as well as overseas. But I would share what I sense are your concerns
as well about the security of our shipping.
TAYLOR:
When you think about it, it was just so incredibly remarkable that in the Gulf
War, we did not have one combat-related casualty to any of the ships that were
delivering the things we needed. I can't believe that any potential foe would
let us get by that easily again.
I mean, people learn
from their mistakes. The Iraqis have to learn from their mistakes. And that was
one of them.
And so we would certainly hope that the
appropriate steps are being taken.
HANDY: We certainly
have not only worried but have acted on port as well as shipping concerns and
continue to press measures to protect shipping as well as ports. But there is
still a lot of work to be done to mitigate the spectrum of threats that we see
potentially out there. It's an area that we can't minimize the threat.
It is absolutely there. And it's one that we intend to
mitigate as best we possibly can.
TAYLOR: Thank you,
Mr. Chairman.
HUNTER: Thank the gentleman.
Ms. Davis?
DAVIS: Thank you, Mr.
Chairman. My colleague, Mr. Taylor, is absolutely correct that we were fortunate
to not have any combat injury-related incident. But we did face some other
problems, I think, during the Gulf War, if I'm told correctly, in getting ships
loaded with American equipment into the ports on time.
And one of the things that I understood was one of the problems there
was that the foreign crews refused to enter zones that they felt were dangerous.
And since that war, many analysts, I think, said that we should do something to
do strengthen our Merchant Marine. And I'm not sure if we've done that.
Could you tell me if we have? And if we haven't, are we
making any steps towards doing it?
HANDY: Thank you,
ma'am. I would tell you that with regards to the whole discussion of the U.S.
mariner pool, much of the discussion we've had about MSP and the retention of
U.S. flagged carriers enhances our U.S. mariner pool. And so anything that can
continue to increase or at least sustain that capability of our U.S. mariner, we
obviously favor.
I'm not familiar with the Desert
Shield and Storm cases that you refer to. But certainly, a viable U.S. mariner
capability precludes those sorts of things from becoming a reality.
DAVIS: Have we increased our pool or maintained our pool?
It was my understanding it's dwindled.
HANDY: It has
declined. And it is certainly, as we look out into the future, the shortage of
mariners, within our own analysis, suggests that we could be as many as 3,000
mariners short of our requirements by the 2005 timeframe, which is literally
right around the corner.
And so every endeavor that we
can take to sustain and increase where possible that U.S. mariner pool, we're
certainly in favor of and endorse.
DAVIS: So if I'm
hearing correctly, the problems that we had during the Gulf War -- if they were,
in fact, true problems -- we could have even more so in these future wars if
we're going because our pool has dwindled down. But let me ask you one more
thing.
General Handy, I heard you make a statement a
minute ago when you were answering someone's question. And you said -- in quotes
-- "Sufficiency of totally owned U.S. industry does not exist today." End
quotes.
Why?
HANDY: I think
it's an economic issue, that our U.S. flag shipping capability has declined over
the years. There are a whole lot of reasons, I think, that that has migrated to
a foreign flag. History has proven that that is an issue that this nation faces,
is that we have allowed to migrate a great number of shipping capability to
foreign flag.
It's taxes. It's economy. It's pay
scales. There are a number of reasons that have gotten us in that position.
One of the great values of a program like MSP is it does
help preclude any further denigration of that capability.
DAVIS: So then we probably need to tighten up here in Congress on
allowing some of the things like the offshore that Mr. Taylor was talking about
and then strengthen our MSP here so that we can get more U.S. flag owned
vessels.
HANDY: Every endeavor that we can take as a
nation to secure and sustain a viable U.S. flag shipping and mariner capability,
from a DOD perspective, we absolutely, categorically support. No questions.
DAVIS: Thank you, general.
Thank
you, Mr. Chairman.
HUNTER: I thank the gentlelady.
General, you've got a requirement here, you stated in your
testimony that the projected capacity of the sealift tanker fleet is adequate to
meet the 2005 requirements. Does that conclusion still remain accurate? And
doesn't that contemplate using foreign flag vessels to a fairly large degree?
HANDY: Tankers?
HUNTER: Yeah.
HANDY: We use a significant number of non-U.S. flag
tankers. There is absolutely no question about that.
Our discussions to date have been dry cargo. The tanker issue is one
that certainly is of concern to us as well.
HUNTER:
When you say concern, what would you like to see in terms of tankers?
HANDY: According to MRS-O5, the requirement for wet or
tanker capability is extraordinary. And U.S. flag tanker fleet is certainly not
robust enough to handle those requirements.
HUNTER:
Okay.
HANDY: And so I am certainly, as an organization,
we remain very concerned and interested in any hooks that might be spun off into
the tanker realm as well, as we discuss MSP reauthorization.
HUNTER: Okay. So you believe that U.S. flag tankers that carry jet fuel
should be part of that MSP program?
HANDY: Well, I
think that I wouldn't constrain it just to jet fuel. It is the . . .
HUNTER: . . . kind of a critical area for us.
HANDY: It is.
HUNTER: Yeah.
HANDY: But it is not just jet fuel. It is the spectrum of
tanker capabilities that we utilize routinely around the world, in peace and in
conflict, is certainly an area that needs a focus. And it's an appropriate time
to raise that issue as well.
HUNTER: Okay. Well, we're
talking about perhaps putting some conditions on and priorities on Title 11. Do
you think that's a candidate for conditions?
HANDY:
Yes, sir.
HUNTER: Okay.
Now
you've already answered this to some degree, in terms of talking about Title 11
preferences. But you know, we had a fairly extensive hearing on the shipbuilding
component of MSP. Do you think there should be a shipbuilding component in an
MSP program?
HANDY: I think clearly, from an
organizational perspective, TRANSCOM is of the position that we need MSP
reauthorization. I think it's also important that we need a shipbuilding
capability in this nation. And the decisions of how we might link those two
together are ones that I'm hopeful that you all will be able to address.
And the reason I put it that way is the cost of both
programs is certainly one that is an area of interest for you all. From our
perspective, we support both initiatives -- strong, viable shipbuilding and a
strong and viable MSP program.
HUNTER: On page six of
the summary, it's indicated that our port planning orders provide insufficient
burdening space and staging areas. Has this been corrected?
HANDY: Are you talking about the MRS 2005?
HUNTER: Yeah.
HANDY: We believe that there has
been a lot of improvement. That was an across-the-board comment about the state
of ports within the United States.
We believe that we
have, as a nation, mitigated a lot of those concerns. We also are confident
that, with regards to the two major ports that we use that are military ports,
both Sunny Point and Concord, that we have made the investments to improve those
ports sufficiently with -- certainly, as you'll see in our budgets -- continuing
through the out years funding those upgrades.
HUNTER:
Okay.
What we're paying out of the MSP program, the
$2.1 million? Prospects for that going higher? Do you think there should be an
increase?
HANDY: I think that that's something that
industry and we need to continue to work. But those offsets were targeted at the
mariner differential -- you know, differential between a U.S. mariner and a
foreign mariner. Those costs are bound to go up, have gone up. And so any
reauthorization, certainly from our view, ought to look at those costs and try
to help mitigate that impact on the industry.
HUNTER:
Have you folks done any analysis on this?
HANDY: Not
the detailed analysis that would pin down a number for you, sir.
HUNTER: Okay.
We're talking about the
prospects of another conflict in the Middle East. Do you anticipate we're going
to be using the MSP ships in this conflict?
HANDY: We
already are. I mean, our routine contracting processes, on a day-to-day basis,
even in complete peacetime, we deal with our VISA and MSP partners. And as we
have ramped up over this last year, we have used them even more. And any
continued -- whatever the next step might be, we anticipate that we will
continue to use those ships and those partnerships aggressively.
HUNTER: Talk to us a little bit about the various stages of activation.
What procedures are in place to minimize disruption to commercial services that
the companies obviously have? It's somewhat analogous, I think, to our
reservists being called up and having a disruption in their peacetime employment
-- obviously, a big issue and I think similarly, to some degree, an issue with
our MSP ships.
So could you describe those various
stages of activation? And do you think if we activate a number of U.S. flag
vessels, their foreign competitors will take over customers on a permanent
basis?
HANDY: I think that first off, VISA is the
program that targets levels of activation -- stage I, II and III. Under stage
III, MSP is a subset.
A critical point of MSP is it is
the entire ship, you're actually taking an entire ship. In VISA, you're taking
capacity. And so stage I, for example, is a small percentage -- around 15
percent, less than 15 percent . . .
HUNTER: And
thereby, a small disruption.
HANDY: That's right.
HUNTER: And maybe no disruption.
HANDY: That's right, capacity. The reason it's phased the way it is, it
is designed to take advantage of the existing routes that the shipping companies
have. And so we're buying capacity on a ship that is already heading our way, to
put it sort of colloquially.
HUNTER: Yeah, I
understand.
HANDY: Stage II increases that capability.
When we get to stage III, we're using a significant capacity of the ship, as
well as if we rely on our MSP partners. Then we are taking the whole ship.
It gets down to the question of by stage III then, do we
anticipate there might be some economic disadvantage to our VISA partners. That
possibility certainly exists. We see it in the CRAF program on the air side.
HUNTER: Sure.
HANDY: And so it is
easy to create the scenario that says, by stage III of VISA, that you would have
some economic impact on that particular company. And the other nuance there --
there are a lot of metrics, but the other nuance -- is how many ships does a
particular company have committed to stage III of VISA? If it's a small number,
then the impact is somewhat mitigated. But if, in some of our partners, it's a
significant number, then the impact is even greater.
HUNTER: Mr. Saxton?
SAXTON: General, I'm
bedeviled by details on this MSP. I have found that it is so complex and very
complicated. And I usually catch on to things pretty quick. But I need to ask
you one more detail.
Do you know the term "citizen
trust" as it relates to the MSP program? And if you do, we can discuss it. If
not, we'll talk about this later.
I heard this term
recently. And I was informed that the term citizen trust is involved here. And
Rusty (ph) and I talked about it earlier today, I think. And it's related to
documentation vessels and citizen trust vis-a-vis American ownership.
And I honestly don't understand the concept. But I think
it may be pertinent to the subject that we're discussing in terms of the
reliability and the access that we have to these vessels.
HANDY: I have to tell you, Mr. Saxton, that citizen trust is a term
that is entirely new in this discussion for me. We'll ask the right questions
and try to go to your same source -- Rusty (ph) -- and then we can . . .
SAXTON: Okay. Thank you.
HUNTER:
For the record, I want the record to reflect that when you brought up the
citizen trust issue, Rusty (ph) reflected only a blank stare.
(LAUGHTER)
HANDY: Then I'm not going to Rusty
(ph) for my source then.
HUNTER: Anything else, Jim?
SAXTON: No.
HUNTER: Okay.
Mr. Taylor?
TAYLOR: General, I'm
curious if we were to have a mobilization -- that is, 75 percent of the force
that was sent to Saudi Arabia last time -- how long would it take you, given the
medium-speed RO/ROs, given the prepositioned ships, realistically, how long
would it take you to accomplish that goal?
HANDY: Now
you used the term "mobilization." You're talking about not in terms of
mobilization of Guard and Reserve. You're talking about mobilizing the ships
that we have at our . . .
TAYLOR: I'm talking about
actually getting the equipment there. Obviously, the force is not as large as it
was 12 years ago. But let's say that 75 percent of the force that was sent 12
years ago were to be sent now, how long? And one of the things we had last time
was the luxury of time, a lot of time.
How long, given
what you have now, would it take to get the force over there?
HANDY: There are a number of estimates. And we've looked at all kinds
of planning scenarios. There are a number of estimates. But let me give you a
couple of real good points that have happened over the last 12 years.
A lot of lessons learned. You know, we certainly were
fortunate to have six months to mobilize. And we have no doubt that they're
learned the lessons in that part of the world, as well as the rest of the
world.
Therefore, we have done a considerable better
job of prepositioning specific assets in the AOR far greater than we had back
then. We have also moved an awful lot of force structure forward by virtue of
Shield and Storm and Operation Northern Watch, Southern Watch, the other
endeavors going on in that part of the world.
There is
a considerably more force structure and resources forward today than we found at
the start of Desert Shield. There's no question about it.
As we have built up in Afghanistan, we have also moved considerable
force structure forward, far greater than we would have seen from the cold start
of Desert Shield. All that puts us in a position that mitigates that somewhat
cold start, "now we've got to go do it" scenario that we all worry about. So if
there is any positive news, it is that, from a mobilization or deployment
process perspective, we at TRANSCOM have seen a lot of that force structure move
forward and a lot less of it left to have to move.
Having said all of that, some of the estimates for the total force size
that we might use in any engagement in the world suggests that it could be
anywhere from 60 to 90 days to move the force that we need. Now that's not a
force that's necessarily comparable to the size of the Shield or Storm force.
And so the roughly 75 percent number, it's -- I don't have any metrics that
measure what we're doing today against what we moved back then.
I will tell you that we moved an awful lot that didn't need to be
moved. And so that inflates the size of what people saw in Shield and Storm.
This time, we are looking at all of those scenario plans and are prepared to
move exactly what we need in far less time than we would have done back then.
And so, that 60 to 90 day metric is still a pretty good
walking around bumper sticker for what has to be done. And I'll tell you one
other thing is that doesn't necessarily determine when you start the
conflict.
TAYLOR: I think the key element last time was
the -- I was absolutely amazed at the capability of some of the ports I saw in
Saudi Arabia. I think I'm probably going to say it wrong, but I believe Dammam
had about 24 container cranes. It was just mind- boggling, compared to some of
the ports I've seen stateside.
Are you getting the full
cooperation of the Saudis for the use of those ports?
HANDY: We haven't seen any reason to doubt the support or use of key
seaports in the area that we operate today. We use those ports routinely. It is
certainly not to the degree that a significant surge might require, as we see it
today.
But we have no constraints on it from a port
perspective. And I would certainly anticipate that only time will tell what any
of the governments might decide in the future if we find ourselves engaged over
there. It would be impossible for me to predict how they might react.
But today, we have great support from all the countries
around the entire peninsula, which certainly exceeds just the Saudis.
TAYLOR: What level of confidence do you have that these
foreign- owned ships that are part of the American prepositioned fleet, if the
Iraqis started launching scuds at Saudi Arabian port cities and if those scuds
were somehow able to carry the chemical or biological weapons, how confident are
you that companies that are owned by other than Americans would send their ships
there?
HANDY: One thing to -- certainly we keep in
mind, both air and sea, is the scenario of a chemical or slimed port, airport or
seaport, as we talk about. Both those scenarios, for a short period of time,
depend upon how bad it is.
We don't continue operating
in that port. We move to alternate ports, both air and sea, and use other
methods for reception and onward movement of those same supplies. Granted, we're
talking about a finite part of the world, which leads to some problems in that
if we all focus just on the Saudi Peninsula, you'll draw some conclusions that
you might find you realize are not very useful anywhere else in the world.
But in that scenario, we tend not to -- we choose not to
go into those ports until we've been able to clean them up and operate there.
And so then the subordinate question becomes: would you send anybody in there?
And the answer, I've said, is we move to an alternate port.
So we somewhat mitigate the question you're asking. But we face both
those questions for all the methods of transportation we have.
It would be theoretical for me to try to decide whether or not someone
-- it gets back to the same question of the chairman. Would they support us or
not? And in fact, it may have nothing to do with the status of a chemical attack
or some other type of biological attack at a port. It might be that someone just
chooses not to go support us in that war.
But for the
scenario you describe, we move to alternate ports, is the solution. And we have
been supported, both air and sea, in the case of the scuds flying even back in
Shield and Storm. We didn't know what they contained at the time. We still were
able to support those initiatives, using the same partners that we have
today.
TAYLOR: General, my last question is I believe
the ratio of thing delivered by sea versus things delivered by air was about 90
to 10.
HANDY: Absolutely.
TAYLOR: Is that still what you plan on it being? Even with the addition
of the C-17s? I would imagine any future conflict would still be with the great
preponderance of goods delivered are still going to be delivered by sea?
HANDY: Again, I'd have to start out and say it's certainly
scenario-dependent. But we've seen in the last year that operations in
Afghanistan have been virtually, until very recently, totally air centric. And
so we have relied on C-17s, C-130s and C-5s to get the vast majority of
equipment, men, supplies, everything into Afghanistan.
It's only recently that we were able to -- and certainly by the strong
help of our sealift partners, have access to Pakistani ports -- port -- and move
things over land into Afghanistan. As we look at generically, over time, aside
from Afghanistan, the figures that you quote are about right. Invariably, we end
up trying to get the biggest bang for the buck on the mode of transportation
that gets stuff there.
And it's sealift. Sealift is by
far the greatest contributor to our force projection capability over the long
term.
That's short, surgical, very quick high demand
stuff goes by air. And that ends up being 10 to 15 percent of what's moved.
Sealift does it. An average FSS or LMSR will handle 250 C-5 equivalents. So that
gives you a walk around number that tells you it's no wonder we rely on
sealift.
We just don't have the numbers of airlift at
our hands today. But regardless, scenario-dependent, sealift is the main method
of movement.
TAYLOR: Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
HUNTER:
Thank the gentleman.
Ms. Davis? All set?
Okay, Mr. Saxton? Okay.
Well,
general, thank you. And we obviously have a lot of work to do. And we look
forward to work with you.
There's actually one last
thing that I think is kind of the message from us to you. But I think you
already know it. And that is that it's going to take your weight, the weight and
the force and effect of DOD arguing and working strenuously with the
administration, those that don't think that we should put as much of a priority
on this lift as you know that we have to have in order to get the dollars to
make it work in the relevant program.
You know, the
administration is not a great friend of some of these programs. And unless you
weigh in on this battle, it's going to be very difficult to increase the dollar
amounts that we know need to be forthcoming -- for example, for the MSP program.
And we're going to have to go far above that $100 million cap.
You're aware of that, I'm sure?
HANDY:
Absolutely.
HUNTER: I hope you weigh in on this
argument. Do you plan to do that?
HANDY: Sir, we have
not been bashful about our views on MSP reauthorization at all. We have engaged
every level that we possibly can, a la junkyard dog style, to be very blunt
about it, to make sure that people understand clearly, throughout all levels of
government and within the DOD, that MSP reauthorization is a critical element of
the nation's defensive capability for the reasons that Mr. Taylor points out.
HUNTER: Could you weigh in with the White House on this?
The Office of Management and Budget? Seriously, I think that you need to get
into this battle. And you need to educate the folks in OMB, Director Daniels and
his deputies, as to the importance of this program. Because this program is
going to be given short shrift by OMB, in the absence of some pretty strong
expert advice.
I think you folks have a great deal of
credibility when you go over there and talk to those folks. If you don't talk to
them, the program's going to be written off as a creature of subsidies that's
supposed to be identified as an enemy by a lot of folks in the administration
and dealt with accordingly. I think you need to weigh into this fight with OMB
specifically.
Have you talked to them about . . .
HANDY: I assure you that -- let me lay the marker down for
you. I assure you that I personally will communicate directly with Mr. Daniels.
We have a good relationship.
I will press the case at
his level, from my level...
HUNTER: Great.
HANDY: . . . very directly so that he is aware of the
issues firsthand and not through any of our staffs.
HUNTER: Great. I think we need to do that. And we'll try to work hand
in hand with you on those efforts.
So I thank you for
being with us today. And I want to thank the members for their excellent
questions. And the panel is adjourned.
END
NOTES: [????] - Indicates Speaker
Unknown [--] - Indicates could not make out what
was being said.[off mike] - Indicates could not make out what was being said.
PERSON: JOHN DUNCAN
JR (94%); DUNCAN HUNTER (94%); JOHN
HANDY (91%); THOMAS H ALLEN (66%); CURT
WELDON (57%); WALTER B JONES (57%); ANDER
CRENSHAW (56%); JO ANN DAVIS (56%); ADAM
SMITH (55%); WILLIAM M THOMAS (55%); GENE
TAYLOR (55%); JAMES H MALONEY (54%);