Copyright 2002 Federal News Service, Inc.  
Federal News Service
July 18, 2002 Thursday
SECTION: CAPITOL HILL HEARING

LENGTH: 12750 words

HEADLINE: HEARING OF THE MIDDLE EAST AND SOUTH ASIA SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE HOUSE INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS COMMITTEE
 
SUBJECT: RECENT DEVELOPMENTS IN SOUTH ASIA
 
CHAIRED BY: REPRESENTATIVE BENJAMIN GILMAN (R-NY)
 
LOCATION: 2172 RAYBURN HOUSE OFFICE BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C.

WITNESSES: CHRISTINA ROCCA, ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE FOR SOUTH ASIAN AFFAIRS
 


BODY:
REP. GILMAN: (Sounds gavel.) The committee will come to order. Members, please take your seats.

We want to welcome the State Department's assistant secretary for the Bureau of South Asian Affairs, Christina Rocca, to our subcommittee once again. The administration relies heavily on Ms. Rocca for her expertise and guidance for a troubled region of the world, and we're grateful we have an opportunity to spend some time with her. The Congress has the responsibility of ensuring that our military personnel and our diplomats are going to have all the necessary means to destroy terrorist organizations in the region that threaten our citizens.

In the past, these terrorist organizations were able to gather strength and strike us around the world without suffering any serious consequences. Our nation's policy toward Pakistan and Afghanistan failed to prevent al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden from building up their network so that they could successfully utilize their assets against our nation.

The Bush administration, which inherited these problems, has responded with appropriate diplomacy and strength. But much remains to be done. The issue of illegal drug production and the need for a truly democratic form of government in Afghanistan are not receiving an appropriate amount of attention.

We're concerned about other developments in the region. Last weekend, 27 more Kashmiris were murdered by terrorists. In yesterday's paper it was reported that Indian Deputy Prime Minister, now Minister Advani, asked our nation to threaten to name Pakistan as a terrorist state. Millions of Indian and Pakistani troops are poised at the border. The newly formed government in Afghanistan is weak, due to a number of diplomatic blunders surrounding the recent loya jirga. The Norwegian-sponsored peace talks in Bangkok between the government of Sri Lanka and the Tamil Tigers has yet to get off the ground. The government of Bangladesh is still sitting on enormous resources of untapped natural gas, and yet millions of its citizens are suffering from hunger and poverty. And China continues to stir the pot in the region by arming Pakistan, Burma, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh. And Nepal is facing a very serious threat from a Maoist insurgency. India feels surrounded and its defense minister tells visiting diplomats and officials that China, not Pakistan, is India's number one concern.

Secretary Rocca, we appreciate your being here because we know that you'll be clarifying some of these issues, and we look forward to hearing your testimony today.

And I'm pleased to call on our ranking member, the gentlemen from New York, Mr. Ackerman.

REP. GARY ACKERMAN (D-NY): Mr. Chairman, thank you very much for calling today's hearing. Since September 11th, South Asia has become the epicenter for the U.S.-led war on terrorism, and much has changed there, even in the six weeks since the subcommittee last met on this topic. In Afghanistan, the loya jirga has been held and the new transitional government has been approved, except for the parliament, which is, I believe, still under discussion.

Yet we and the international community still have a long way to go before we can declare Afghanistan a success.

The war goes on in Eastern Afghanistan, albeit at a lower level of intensity, and the security situation is still unstable. The assassination of Vice President Qadir on July 6th is only the most recent testament to the lack of security in Afghanistan.

I will say now, as I've said before: The administration's plan to train a national army is the right long-term solution to security in Afghanistan. But there is a near-term security problem that yet remains underdressed. We need a strategy to bridge the gap between the present situation and the day years hence when Afghans can provide their own security. The House has passed language in the Afghan Freedom Support Act calling for such a strategy, but even if that language never becomes law, it's incumbent upon the administration to provide an alternative as it remains opposed to the expansion of the International Security Assistance Force.

Since Assistant Secretary Rocca was last with the committee, tension between India and Pakistan has subsided, and I think everyone agrees that the efforts by Deputy Secretary Armitage and Defense Secretary Rumsfeld have produced some positive results. But there remain questions over President/General Musharraf's commitment to stopping infiltration and closing up the terrorist camps. The government of India strongly disputes our assertion that infiltration is down. And in any event, the heinous attacks in Jammu last weekend and on Tuesday in Anantnag shows that the terrorists have not given up and that they intend to disrupt the elections planned for this October.

The United States must continue to insist that President/General Musharraf keep his commitment to stop cross-border infiltration and to close up the terrorist camps that remain in Pakistan. Beyond the tension between India and Pakistan, there is a fundamental issue for the United States to face in its relations with Pakistan, and that is the return of democracy to that country.

There is no doubt that Pakistan has been extremely supportive of Operation Enduring Freedom. And as I've noted before, we have been extremely generous in recognizing that support. But the price for Pakistan's help must not include our abandonment of democratic principles. United States should and must be insisting that Pakistan return to a democratic form of government without delay.

The sham referendum extending his term, the proposed constitutional changes which would expand his power beyond even General Zia's wildest dreams and the concern that the National Assembly elections in October will not be free and fair all point to President/General Musharraf's determination to hold onto power and create only the veneer of democracy and that, in the process, he has alienated the very segments of Pakistani society which had originally welcomed his coup.

The response from the United States has been at best a mild rebuke, and at worst, the turning of a blind eye. We should insist that the elections in October be free and fair. The United States has nothing to fear from such an insistence.

Those who argue that the alternative to Musharraf may be someone worse ignore Pakistan's limited history with elections. Islamic parties have never done well in Pakistan elections. I think this speaks volumes about the desire of the Pakistani people to have a moderate democratic Muslim state. The position of the United States should be to support the wishes of the Pakistani people in that regard. I hope that Secretary Powell, when he is in Islamabad next week, will tell President General Musharraf that the United States expects him to keep his word about abandoning terrorism and returning to democracy.

Everywhere in the region, Mr. Chairman, there are both causes for hope and continued reasons for despair. In Sri Lanka, for the first time in seven years, there is at least reasonable cause to hope that the civil war could be brought to an end. The Norwegian-brokered cease-fire is fragile, to say the least, but the steps taken so far by the government of Sri Lanka and the LTTE represent significant achievements.

At the other end of the spectrum, the government of Nepal has decided that the best way to a confront a fierce Maoist insurgency is to provoke a constitutional crisis, split the ruling Nepali Congress Party, have the king declare a state of emergency, and wait for the Supreme Court to sort it all out next month.

In Bangladesh, the overwhelming victory last October by the BNP brought with it hopes that the politics of retribution and confrontation might be abandoned. Indeed, the otherwise free and fair election was marred by post-election violence and the Awami League's refusal until recently to take their seat in parliament. In the wake of that violence, some have raised questions about the BNP government's commitment to human rights and to protecting all of its citizens. And I hope that the secretary will address that issue so that we might have a clearer picture this afternoon.

But aside from the domestic and political situation, Bangladesh has been strongly supportive of the war on terrorism and is, frankly, the sort of modest secular democratic Muslim state that we hope some of its South Asian neighbors would become. Bangladesh plays a very positive role in the international community regionally, with the development of South Asian Association for Regional Cooperation, and globally with its participation in various U.N. peacekeeping missions worldwide.

For these reasons, Bangladesh deserves our time and attention. And as we we were reminded in last week's news report about arsenic poisoning, Bangladesh is still a very poor country that faces tremendous developmental challenges.

Mr. Chairman, we have a lot of ground to cover today, and I'm pleased to see the assistant secretary here and I look forward to her testimony.

REP. GILMAN: Thank you, Mr. Ackerman.

Mr. Rohrabacher.

Mr. Rohrabacher.

REP. DANA ROHRABACHER (R-CA): Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I'll just try to be to the point.

What we have here is a(n) area of the world, a region that has been totally neglected. And to the degree that we weren't neglecting that part of the region, our policies were not based on principle and not based on those type of prerequisites that would create a better world. In -- just in Pakistan, for example, we permitted during the war in Afghanistan for the Pakistani situation to deteriorate and for the democratic institutions in Pakistan to deteriorate. We permitted the ISI in Pakistan, we turned a blind eye to their involvement in the drug trade, and they were, everyone knows was -- they were up to their eyeballs in the heroin trade.

So we neglected that region. We neglected to do our duty. And after the war and during the 1990s the United States was on the wrong side in Afghanistan. We ended up fighting with the Taliban. I know I -- over and over again I warned this committee about our covert policy toward supporting the Taliban; now we are reaping the rewards of this folly.

Also, over these last decades we have not had the courage to step forward to India and to the rest of the world and -- with India at our side and tell the Indians they have to permit the people of Kashmir to have a plebiscite to control their own destiny. And until the -- the root cause of much of the instability in this part of the world comes from an unwillingness, an arrogance, and an intransigence on the part of India not to permit the people of Kashmir the right to control their own destiny. That will -- we won't have peace until that plebiscite happens and those people are given the right to free and fair elections.

And finally, Mr. Chairman, again, the situation has deteriorated in Pakistan. You have a military dictatorship. They play games, they -- (laughs) -- this plebiscite that they had on whether Mr. Musharraf should stay in power was an insult to the democratic nations of the world, trying to suggest that he in some way through this corrupt process had verified his own ability, or his own legitimacy of his military regime. So I would suggest the United States and the Western democracies should be used exercising a positive influence on that part of the world. And we haven't been exercising a positive influence: a positive influence towards democratic government, a positive influence towards respect for other people's rights, their religious rights and their political rights, and respect for the rights of people to control their own destinies through the ballot box, and also stepping forward in our tradition of, instead of going to a radical alternative, be more, you know, compromising with people in a system that permits all people, even with disagreements, to exist.

So, with that, Mr. Chairman, I appreciate this hearing. We need to -- this is a region that needs our attention, and I applaud your leadership over the last few years in trying to make sure we were doing what's right.

REP. GILMAN: Thank you, Mr. Rohrabacher.

Mr. Royce.

REP. EDWARD R. ROYCE (R-CA): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm very troubled by the recent events in Afghanistan, and I welcome the assistant secretary. And I just thought I would take a moment to share my concern with the assassination of the vice president, Abdul Qadir.

And my worries are that the largest ethnic group there, the Pashtuns, are beginning to lose confidence in President Karzai. And I think we need to do all we can do to help Afghans feel a greater sense of being part of a unified greater Afghanistan. And, for instance, I know when Radio Free Afghanistan broadcasts, they refer to figures in their reports as Afghans. That's one of the reasons the BBC is resisted at times because, as Chairman Karzai says, "We're all Afghans. We're all Afghans."

My concern here is that a part of the country, the Pashtun part of the country, is beginning to feel alienated. They're beginning to feel that the Northern Alliance warlords are not sensitive to reform and not sensitive to inclusion of Pashtuns. And now, we have the assassination of the vice president, and I think this really is a moment of challenge and maybe crisis. And we need to really be focused right now on what we can do to help expand that government, make sure it is broad-based, make sure it is committed to reform. And we need to address these Pashtun concerns.

Thank you very much again for being here, Mrs. Secretary Rocca.

REP. GILMAN: Thank you, Mr. Royce.

Any other member desire to make an opening statement? If not, we'll proceed with the testimony by Secretary Rocca, who was sworn in as assistant secretary of State for South Asian Affairs in May of last year. Prior to joining the Department of State, she was foreign affairs advisor to Senator Brownback, where she specialized on issues relating to South Asia, to Central Asia and the Caucasus and the Middle East. From 1982 to 1997, Mrs. Rocca was an intelligence officer with the CIA.

Welcome, Secretary Rocca.

MS. ROCCA: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I will -- I have a full statement, which I'd like to put in the record. I will shorten it considerably for --

REP. GILMAN: Without objection. Thank you.

MS. ROCCA: Thank you. And first let me start by saying that I understand that you've announced that you'll be retiring, and I just want to say how much we -- I personally and the bureau have enjoyed working with you. I enjoyed it prior to coming even to the administration, when I worked up here on Capitol Hill.

And we're very grateful for everything you've done, and we're going to miss you --

REP. GILMAN: Thank you for your kind words. That was an involuntary retirement, due to redistricting. (Laughter.)

MS. ROCCA: Mr. Chairman, members of the subcommittee, thank you for inviting me to speak today about the developments in South Asia and our policy responses.

Since September 11th, South Asia has often been in the headlines, both as the principal focus of our war against terrorism and also because of the crisis between India and Pakistan.

But we have important interests in other countries in South Asia. In Nepal, a major rural insurgency threatens to destabilize the country. In Sri Lanka, a long-standing civil war may be starting to move towards resolution, but the process is likely to be long and difficult. Chronic political rivalries and violence compound a serious law and order problem in Bangladesh and pose a danger to the young democracy of that country.

And of course, there's the long-term question of Afghanistan's future. Following the encouraging success of the loya jirga process, a fragile transitional government is trying to bring stability to a country torn by almost a quarter century of war.

Our relationship with the South Asian states have been central to our successful prosecution of the war on terrorism. All have been fully supportive, and their support in this war has been and will continue to be absolutely crucial. You yourself have mentioned the roles they've played, so I won't enumerate it here. It is part of my full statement. But we are extremely grateful for the support that they've been providing, and we can't -- we couldn't be doing it without them.

The encouraging progress in South Asia -- encouraging progress -- I'm sorry -- in South Asia towards prosperity and democracy is often too overshadowed by the specter of war between India and Pakistan, and that is often, as I said, a large part of the concerns that we have. We're deeply concerned over the continuing high levels of tension between these two countries and in particular about the continued deployment of forces along their shared border, as well as in Kashmir. A surge in violence could spark a military confrontation with long- lasting and devastating consequences for the entire region, and the enemies of moderation in the region are aware of this fact and are trying to exploit it through high-profile terrorist attacks, such as that that we saw this weekend outside Jammu.

As Secretary Powell has put it, war is just not an option for India and Pakistan. The only way forward that offers a prospect of genuinely resolving their differences is the path of dialogue and confidence building. We're working to help the two sides find mutually acceptable ways to begin the de-escalation process. President Musharraf has pledged that infiltration into Kashmir from his country will end permanently. Pakistan and its more -- Pakistan needs to keep that pledge in order to begin a process of resolution of the immediate crisis and its more fundamental difficulties with India.

Once tensions begin to subside, the process should be continued by New Delhi agreeing to resume talks with Islamabad on all issues, including Kashmir.

We also are supportive of Indian efforts to conduct free and fair elections in the state of Kashmir, scheduled for later this year, and to begin to address Kashmiri grievances. Such elections could proceed with much greater chance of success in an atmosphere free of violence and intimidation, and serve as the first step towards resolution of the issue.

Finally, we continue to offer our good offices in helping the two sides resume dialogue to resolve their differences. Next week Secretary Powell will be visiting India and Pakistan for the second time since January. On the agenda will be the crisis between India and Pakistan, but we will also start discussing and reviving the bilateral relationship which has been -- with each country, which has been ongoing all along, but which somehow in the public eye has tended to diminish -- has tended to not get as much attention. It is our intention to stay fully engaged with both countries, as well as to reduce the tensions between them.

Let me first turn to developments in our bilateral relationships with the various countries in South Asia. India is increasingly an important player in world affairs. From the start of this administration, President Bush has sought to effect the transformation of the U.S. relationship with India. We're engaging with India on a wide range of issues. From counterterrorism to security issues, climate change and commerce, to strengthening democracy and fighting HIV/AIDS, the president has looked to India as a partner in all these issues. We're working more closely than ever with India on military cooperation. Our military forces are now actively developing the capability to work together effectively through joint-exercises planning and senior-level visits.

Nonproliferation remains an important item on our bilateral agenda, which we hope to address through cooperation and mutual understanding. The U.S.-India counterterrorism cooperation is rapidly maturing. Just last week, we had the -- we hosted the fifth session of the U.S.-India Joint Working Group on Counterterrorism, which predates 9/11.

In the economic sphere, the pace of our engagement has also picked up, though this is one area where much more can be done. Our commercial relationship, which is growing, is growing too slowly and requires New Delhi to pursue important second-generation reforms. With the active participation of our respective private sectors, we're hopeful that our economic dialogue with India can and will play an important role in helping us realize the enormous potential of our economic relationship.

Our two democracies are working together more intensely than ever before to make the world freer, more peaceful and more prosperous. Our collaboration can only make the world a safer and more just place.

In Pakistan, President Musharraf is setting his country on a bold new course and has a genuine opportunity to build a prosperous, progressive and tolerant Islamic state. President Musharraf, recognizing the danger that extremism poses and posed to his country, has denounced it and vowed to prevent the use of Pakistan as a base for extremists. His government has banned all the major extremist groups, frozen their assets, and arrested many of their members.

Pakistani authorities are working hand in hand with U.S. agencies in tracking and capturing remaining al Qaeda elements that have fled to Pakistan. Pakistani troops have arrested al Qaeda fighters in the Northwest Frontier Province, who fled coalition operations in Afghanistan. And Pakistani police have made numerous arrests of al Qaeda and other extremists throughout their country. More than 12 Pakistani soldiers have died in such operations in the last week -- last two weeks.

The extremists, showing how threatened they feel by President Musharraf's action, have struck back. They've killed scores of Pakistanis and targeted Westerners in Karachi and Islamabad. The government has not been intimidated. Instead, it has continued its campaign against terrorists and their supporters. With Pakistan, we also have a Joint Working Group on Counterterrorism and Law Enforcement, which met for the first time in May.

President Musharraf's government recognizes that extremism feeds on economic and social dislocation. It's taking positive actions on economic and social reform; it's completed its IMF program, and USAID has begun implementing programs to improve basic education in Pakistan and to support President Musharraf's efforts at educational reforms. We intend to enhance these efforts in the next fiscal years. Poor quality of schools and lack of access to educational opportunities in Pakistan have resulted in the growth of the madrassas, some of which inculcate intolerance and extremism in Pakistani youth. The government has put an ambitious program into action for revamping Pakistan's education system, which includes bringing the madrassas or religious schools under control. Outside funding for the country's madrassas has been cut off or are being scrutinized and they must now submit to curriculum standards in order to receive government support.

It's in our interest and in the interest of all of Pakistan's neighbors for Pakistan to develop into a more stable, economically sound and better-educated society.

The government has set parliamentary elections in October. President Musharraf recently addressed his nation about plans for his government political reform. We view the restoration of democracy and civilian rule within a constitutional framework as crucial to fostering long-term stability in that country.

In Afghanistan, which has long been a source of stability in the region and beyond, Afghanistan is now moving toward stability and peace, slowly and haltingly at times, but the direction is clear. The demise of the Taliban and the destruction of al Qaeda infrastructure, the return of former king Zahir Shah, the emergency loya jirga and the establishment of a new government are the first steps in getting this war-ravaged country back on its feet. But this is only a beginning.

Continuing instability and violence, such as the recent assassination of the Afghan vice president, are constant reminders that a great deal remains to be done. We and the rest of the international community must remain fully committed to Afghanistan's security, political stability and social-economic recovery. We also need to ensure the security of our new mission in Kabul, continue assistance for reconstruction and recovery, promote respect for human rights and religious freedom by working with new Afghan groups who are trying to recreate a culture of tolerance and respect for all Afghans, including women, and we're also working with the Afghans to eradicate opium poppy.

Unprecedented amounts of foods are now entering the country, and distribution networks are improving. We're also the largest donor of humanitarian assistance, with hundreds of millions of dollars worth of food, medicine and other necessities contributed during the last year.

Turning to Bangladesh, Bangladesh is an example of a nation where development assistance has made a significant impact. At its independence in 1971, it was one of the poorest, most densely populated countries in the world. Since then, it has halved its birth rate and infant and child mortality rates and has become self- sufficient in food production. It has also made impressive strides in women's empowerment through education and employment, and it has conducted three peaceful transfers of power through free and fair elections.

Despite these successes, Bangladeshis face serious political and economic challenges, as you mentioned. Deep and bitter political rivalries between the two main political parties, as well as rampant corruption, continue to threaten political stability and impede economic growth and reform. The current government, elected in October 2002 on a law and order platform, has been slow to deliver on its election promises. The opposition's recent decision to take its place in parliament, however, is a right step -- is a step in the right direction, but the future course of democracy and prosperity in Bangladesh will depend on the major political parties committing to work together to solve the many problems facing this nation.

As you mentioned, Mr. Chairman, Nepal continues to confront a violent Maoist insurgency now in its sixth year, which has left nearly 4,000 dead. The Maoists have shown themselves to be ruthless enemies by their tactics in the field and through terrorist attacks against both government targets and innocent civilians. Nepal's government has a right and duty to protect its citizens within the framework of its constitution. Unfortunately, the leaders of Nepal's ruling political party are locked in a power struggle that inhibits the government's effectiveness in dealing with the Maoists and undertaking development initiatives that can begin to restore its authority in the countryside.

The U.S. is finalizing plans for assistance as part of an international response to help the government of Nepal achieve its goal. Our programs are intended to facilitate the government's efforts both to restore security and to focus on development and poverty reduction.

Finally, Sri Lanka. Developments in that country give us cause for some cautious, very cautious, optimism. The Sri Lankan government and the Liberation Tamils of Tamil Eelam have agreed to a cease-fire and are preparing for formal talks. We're watching these developments very closely and hope that these talks will eventually bring to an end the bitter ethnic conflict that has plagued this small country for nearly two decades.

The Norwegian government has played a key role in bringing the two sides together, and we wish them every success in their effort towards peace. A negotiated political settlement of this conflict would be the best demonstration that negotiation, not violence, provides the most effective means for dealing with contentious issues that divide and separate peoples throughout the world.

On July 24th, the Sri Lankan prime minister will visit the president in Washington, as well as the secretary of State and other senior administration officials. We'll use these meetings to continue to encourage a negotiated settlement of the conflict in Sri Lanka.

In conclusion, Mr. Chairman, it's clear that South Asia has become a major focal point of American foreign policy. This is for reasons that go well beyond our immediate concerns in the war on terrorism. Our engagement with all the countries of the region will continue to grow as they themselves continue to grow and develop. A large part of our agenda will be to support the efforts of all the nations of the region to improve standards of living and strengthen democratic institutions. We are committed to a better future for this very important region.

Thank you.

REP. GILMAN: Thank you, Madam Secretary. And thank you for your analysis of this peaceful part of the world. When they terminated my chairmanship of the committee because of term limitation, they thought they would award me with a peaceful area and gave me the Middle East and South Asia.

We want to welcome Mr. Crowley, the gentleman from New York, who has just joined us. Thank you for being here with us.

Several questions, and then we'll turn to our other colleagues.

The manner in which the former king of Afghanistan was not permitted to run for office in a new Afghan government has been cited as an example of our nation's heavy-handedness. Can you tell us what happened in the loya jirga? There was some indication that the king would have liked to have run for office.

MS. ROCCA: Mr. Chairman, there has been an awful lot of publicity on this, much of it unfounded. The loya jirga, from our perspective, was a success, especially considering where we came from and where we were just last October. It was a gathering that was representative of the Afghan people, and it was their opportunity to elect a president. The king played an extraordinary role in convening the loya jirga, as set out in the Bonn process. And essentially this decision was made by the Afghans. There has been an exaggeration of the role that the U.S. played, but in this instance, we played a role of facilitator for the Afghans -- for the United States with the U.N. and with other international actors to support the loya jirga process.

REP. GILMAN: I know that the king did an outstanding job of bringing -- helping to bring the parties together, and we look forward to working with the new government in Afghanistan.

Madam Secretary, earlier this month, the Christian Science Monitor reported that Mohammed Muslim (ph) a regional chief of Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence Agency stated, and I quote, "The U.S. government destroyed the World Trade Center so that it would have an excuse to destroy Afghanistan." And then he went on to say after that, the U.S. military killed tens of thousands of women and children in Afghanistan. This regional ICI (sic) chief went on to say that Osama bin Laden has been wrongly vilified through CIA-produced fake videos of him talking about the World Trade Center attack. His agency says there are no al Qaeda cells operating inside of Kashmir, and he bitterly denounces what he calls our government's war against them.

If such a high level Pakistani intelligence official believes such things and continues to hold onto his post, then it appears that President Musharraf has little intention to rein in the ISI. What exactly has Musharraf done to flush out these kind of people from the ISI? Did the administration look into the accuracy of a Christian Science Monitor article and have complaints been registered with the government of Pakistan about this official?

MS. ROCCA: Mr. Chairman, I'm unaware of the article and I will look into it as soon as I can. But I would like to say that it is an illustration of a need for us to project our message better in this part of the world. As I think -- I'm not the first administration official to say that we are a little behind on this. We're working hard at making changes in order to get our message out, in order for these kind of -- this kind of disinformation not to take hold and be passed on. We have a number of initiatives that are in train. Our PD element is -- bureau is working very hard on coming up with new initiatives. Those that we've got now include expanding publications in regional languages, expanding exchanges with target-sensitive groups -- for example, with Islamic scholars and clerics from Pakistan, India and Bangladesh, from youth from all the countries in the region, with educators from the region, and journalists. We're also expanding Voice of America and RSA broadcasts in Dari and Pushtu to Afghanistan. We've increased support for regional journalists to cover the U.S. in a post-9/11 environment. These are first steps; there will be more coming. But I think that the quote that you just read illustrates very much the need for us to move forward on those initiatives.

REP. GILMAN: Well, we welcome the steps you've listed. I hope you would take a look at that article and pass it on to President Musharraf and ask him what his comments are --

MS. ROCCA: I will do that.

REP. GILMAN: -- and we'd welcome hearing what his response would be.

Madame Secretary, what has stalled the Norwegian-sponsored peace talks that were due to begin in Bangkok with regard to Sri Lanka? What are the -- can you tell us something about the problems and what is our government doing to try to get these talks moving along?

MS. ROCCA: The peace talks are -- the peace process is moving along. The current government of Sri Lanka has made it their number one priority, and as you've seen, they've been very active. And it is very active in it. And the Norwegians have done a wonderful job in mediating it and setting up the peace talks.

The LTTE has put a hold on it temporarily. There are a number of different analyses which I could put forth; I don't know the exact answer to it as to why now. However, we have reason to be relatively optimistic that things will pick up again in the near future and that we will start to see actual meetings taking place. Certainly the government of Sri Lanka is optimistic that that will be the course.

REP. GILMAN: Thank you.

Mr. Ackerman.

REP. ACKERMAN: Thank you very much.

You did say you would look into that article, but you -- you meant to say also that you don't think it's true, right?

MS. ROCCA: I -- I really don't know. I have not seen it.

REP. ACKERMAN: That the United States blew up the World Trade Center?

MS. ROCCA: Oh, that. Well -- no, sir. (Laughter.) I -- (laughs).

REP. ACKERMAN: I just wanted an opinion on the record.

MS. ROCCA: I can guarantee you that's not true. (Laughs.) Yes.

REP. ACKERMAN: (Laughs.) Thank you. Thank you very much, Madame Secretary, and thank you for sharing your views with us yet again. You're always very cooperative with this committee and provide us with a wealth of information to help us formulate our opinions.

Concerning Bangladesh, one of the things that you said was that they have been slow to deliver, speaking of the administration there, on its election promises. Does that mean that they are delivering, or they're not delivering at all?

MS. ROCCA: Mr. Ackerman, I think that the situation is rather complicated. The law and order situation in Bangladesh is not new to this administration. It has existed for a while. This administration was elected on the platform that they would get rid of some discriminatory laws, or -- and that they would help move forward in order to -- on the entire law and order situation.

The situation's been complicated by a number of things, one of them being that the opposition remained out of parliament until very recently. It is our hope that now that the opposition is in parliament, that the rivalry between these two parties will subside somewhat, and that they can begin to do the real work of reform that is really necessary in order for the situation to get better in Bangladesh.

REP. ACKERMAN: Further on that, the current government there had committed during the elections to have reforms, as you point out. Among those was the establishment of a human rights commission and an anti-corruption commission. Is it our understanding that that process has started?

MS. ROCCA: (Pause.) I believe it has, but I don't want to mislead you.

(To staff) Do we know -- (off mike).

Yeah, I think -- I -- the -- I do believe that the commissions are established and that they are looking into the matter as they are into the gas matters that Mr. Gilman raised as well.

REP. ACKERMAN: I think it would be helpful to commend them on that --

MS. ROCCA: Absolutely.

REP. ACKERMAN: -- when you have that opportunity and to encourage the continuation of that and to note that that process has at least begun.

The problem of arsenic in Bangladesh, pointed out in the media, is a huge problem. Will the administration be proposing any emergency supplemental assistance that we or the international community can provide on a more rapid basis, as this is poisoning, literally poisoning the lives of so many people?

MS. ROCCA: Mr. Ackerman, this is an issue, if -- my very first day on the job I heard about the arsenic issue in Bangladesh. It is a matter of great concern to our ambassador there. And the embassy has been following it very closely, and we've been -- actually, we have already been funding surveys of the situation. It is not a problem that is limited to Bangladesh, however. It also affects parts of India and parts of Nepal. And the World Bank and international financial institutions have been concerned about it and want to move forward on it.

Frankly, part of the issue is, when you -- it needs to become a priority for the governments involved as well. It is a regional issue, and it is one which is of great concern to us and which we will continue to work with the government of Bangladesh on.

REP. ACKERMAN: The quagmire in Pakistan: we have a government there who, you point out, the cooperation from which is essential to our war on terrorism. And at the same time we have a non-elected government -- took office in a coup, overthrowing a duly elected government, and has had sham referendums.

With regard to the situation between India and Pakistan, General Musharraf has always been one who has expressed a great deal of zeal on the issue of the state of Jammu and Kashmir, and has been implicated in terrorist attacks from the time before he was president.

Does the -- our administration have any reason to believe that he is going to moderate or has moderated his position on Kashmir? And if we do, what evidence is that and what has he been saying out loud to the people of Pakistan about terrorist attacks in Kashmir?

MS. ROCCA: The situation in Pakistan, as I mentioned in a foreshortened manner in my opening statement, is very complicated, as you know, and there's a fair amount of extremism there. And it's a situation that's been building up for many years.

President Musharraf has expressed, on his speech on the 12th of January, a vision for Pakistan which is one in which Pakistan is a moderate Muslim country, leader in the Muslim world. And --

REP. ACKERMAN: Yes, but specifically, has he denounced terrorist attacks?

MS. ROCCA: Yes, in -- yes, he has. And in that speech, he vowed that Pakistan would not be used as a launching area for such attacks.

REP. ACKERMAN: And has he reduced the ability of Pakistan to be used as a launching area?

MS. ROCCA: He has -- we have -- he has made commitments to the president, to the secretary of State and to other U.S. officials that indeed the infiltration across the Line of Control -- the government support for infiltration across the Line of Control will end, and we have seen it drop sharply.

By the same token, we've also seen public condemnations on the part of President Musharraf and of Pakistani officials condemning attacks, such as that which occurred this weekend, which they condemned very quickly as a terrorist attack, and it's not --

REP. ACKERMAN: Musharraf himself did?

MS. ROCCA: Yes, he did. The foreign -- I know that the minister of state did -- for foreign affairs did, but I'm not -- (to staff) -- did Musharraf himself --

STAFF: (Off mike.)

MS. ROCCA: The MFA did, yes.

(Off-mike conferrals.)

REP. ACKERMAN: Yeah. Just one further question. Did Musharraf personally attack -- personally denounce the attack that -- the most recent one in Jammu?

MS. ROCCA: I know that the Foreign Affairs Ministry did. I don't know whether he did personally. I'll have to look into it and get back to you on that. I don't know --

REP. GILMAN: The gentleman's time has expired.

Mr. Issa.

REP. DARRELL ISSA (R-CA): Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Madame Secretary, I just want to follow up on the arsenic question, because this is an area that I don't -- I hope to learn from this hearing. Do we have a stated parts per million level that there's typically found? How high is it compared to the domestic, let's say, New Mexican arsenic level that we dealt with earlier in the Congress?

MS. ROCCA: I believe that the acceptable level is 50 parts -- I can't remember the exact term -- per billion. And it is well above that. I don't have --

REP. ISSA: All right, but New Mexico today is above 50 parts per billion in drinking water that Americans are drinking. I just wanted to -- I'd like to try to understand it. We are a committee that often asks for aid money, and I want to be fair and reasonable in asking for it. And Afghanistan now is our second-, I think, largest or third- largest aid recipient. I'm just concerned -- I'm sorry. We were talking Bangladesh, though. But I'm just concerned at -- what is high?

Because the world standard appears to be dramatically lower than what people are drinking in America today.

Yes?

MS. ROCCA: I don't have the current numbers, but I will get back to you.

REP. CROWLEY: Will the gentleman yield?

REP. ISSA: Sure.

REP. CROWLEY: My understand is that in parts of Pakistan, other parts of the region, it's in the thousands per billion -- over one thousand per (billion ?).

REP. ISSA: I think we'd get worried about that.

Okay, if we could -- if your office could follow just so I can be a little more familiar with it --

MS. ROCCA: Be happy to.

REP. GILMAN: Would the gentleman yield?

REP. ISSA: Certainly, Mr. Chairman.

REP. GILMAN: And I'd also like to note that Columbia University -- their Lamont-Doherty Laboratory, which is in my district, has been conducting extensive investigations in Bangladesh to try to find a simple solution. I just wanted to pass that out. Thank you.

REP. ISSA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Probably the focus that I'm most interested in from this hearing, Madam Secretary, is how the Islamic world is reacting sort of throughout this period -- you could break it down either by region or by country under -- on your portfolio -- because my concern obviously is, what effect is the war in Afghanistan having, the expanded war on terrorism, American dialogue, if you will, or rhetoric? And I don't expect you to make a statement about the president's specific statements unless you found them to be appropriate. But try to give us an understanding of where the Islamic world, by region, is going so that we can begin perhaps reaching better or modeling what we do -- because obviously my concern is, we are very quick to point out what we don't like about that area of the world, but I'm not sure that telling them what we don't like has been so far constructive.

MS. ROCCA: This is an interesting issue, and it's one which does affect our region and one which I sort of touched on earlier in terms of the fact that a lot of disinformation is allowed to essentially gain currency and become "truth" in various parts of this part of the world. And so this is something that we are looking at very closely to see how do we deal with this -- because it's not a question of telling them what to do that we don't like, but it's also a question of getting out our story and the actual facts. And that is something that, as a whole, the State Department has been working on and continues to do so. And I can get you a detailed --

REP. ISSA: Please.

MS. ROCCA: -- detailed information on that. But we're struggling with this question, as well.

REP. ISSA: And I guess the second part is, not dealing with misinformation or disinformation, but basically, what appears to be going in factually from the plight of Israeli and Palestinians -- how much is that affecting conditions and your challenges in your region?

MS. ROCCA: It is a cause for concern, and it is raised by the governments with us, mostly in terms of they hope for a peaceful resolution of the conflict in order to -- because people of these countries, especially in Bangladesh and in Pakistan, are very concerned about it and would like to see a peaceful resolution to it.

REP. ISSA: Final question: Would it be fair to say, then, that if we made this one of our highest priorities and brought about some semblance of peace and progress in Palestine, that this would have a dramatically positive effect in your region?

MS. ROCCA: I think it already is a priority.

REP. ISSA: I just -- I was just --

MS. ROCCA: (Laughs.)

REP. ISSA: I'm talking about the potential of success. The success side is what I'm saying is -- you know, it's great to say it's a priority, but if hypothetically, success brought no benefit outside of just a region, then we'd say, well, it's only worth what it's worth there. My question is, would, in fact, throughout the Islamic world, this would be a dramatic improvement in our stature and ability to do other projects if we were able to bring some semblance of peace and security in that region?

MS. ROCCA: Well, I think bringing peace and security to any part of the world would have a good ripple effect, so I guess the answer's got to be yes, sir.

REP. GILMAN: The gentleman's time has expired.

REP. ISSA: Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

REP. GILMAN: Mr. Crowley.

REP. JOSEPH CROWLEY (D-NY): Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Ms. Rocca, good to see you again, as always. Thank you for coming before the committee. I'm sorry that I missed your opening statement. I was unable to extricate myself from a previous appointment in a timely fashion to get over here for it. And I just -- (inaudible) -- behind here as to what your statement may have been in terms of what the mission or the goal of the mission of Mr. Powell is going to be? And if you could just give me a brief overview on that if you've already touched on that. And then, just give me a few more -- just give me a couple of minutes to talk about one other subject. But, go ahead.

MS. ROCCA: I think I can keep it brief. The current situation, the tensions between India and Pakistan are a continuing matter of great concern. We still have two armies facing each other, fully mobilized. And we're worried that these countries are putting their fate in the hands of any terrorist who wants to perpetrate some dramatic attack. But the tensions have subsided somewhat.

The crisis will, of course, be one focus, but in each country, the bilateral relationship with each country will also be a main focus. And we have bilateral interests in each country that are different, separate, and which we'd like to pursue. And so, the secretary will also be talking about those.

REP. CROWLEY: And besides Pakistan and India, any other South Asian countries the secretary will be --

MS. ROCCA: No. He is going on his way to the Afghan regional forum.

REP. CROWLEY: Thank you. I would just -- I know that Gary Ackerman and others probably -- aside from the arsenic in the drinking water, will bring up the issue of Bangladesh. And I just want to say thatm, as much as we put focus and attention on Pakistan and India as well, to not forget the moderate democracy, Islamic democracy in that region that's been a staunch ally of the United States, especially after 9/11, a country that oft times is only focused on after a natural catastrophe, that I think deserves the continued support and positive engagement with our country when they're making moves in the right direction especially, to be notified when we're not in agreement, but especially when they're making positive moves. That country is Bangladesh. Has our government -- has the secretary or our administration reached out to the opposition leader, for instance, for taking her seat in parliament?

MS. ROCCA: She is coming to the United States --

REP. CROWLEY: I know that.

MS. ROCCA: -- I believe, in the very near future. And it's my understanding that I will be seeing her. And we want to -- absolutely, I couldn't agree with you more, sir. We -- first of all, we consider -- India and Pakistan get an awful lot of the attention, but we also are working hard to continue to make progress in our relationship with Bangladesh, which we consider to be a very important country, a model in many ways of a moderate Muslim democracy, which three times in a row has managed to have free and fair and peaceful transfer of power. There are a lot of problems facing it, but we want to work with Bangladesh to -- on those issues.

REP. CROWLEY: Not to diminish the negative, but to accentuate the positive.

MS. ROCCA: Well, I believe that -- maybe I foreshortened my statement a little too much, but absolutely. We want to encourage what's going on.

We want to reinforce, especially now that you've got the two parties working together, we want to see them -- first of all, we're delighted that they are, and we want to see them work -- we want to work with them to work on the problems within Bangladesh.

REP. CROWLEY: Many of us on this committee have had a long-term involvement and interest in the issue of the drinking water situation, not only in Bangladesh, but in the region. And we would just encourage you, as you've already been encouraged by others, to impress upon our government to be as helpful and as forcefully helpful in trying to bring about a solution to that problem. That will not only affect Bangladesh and the regional countries around it, but also maybe help us understand our own problems or potential problems here in the United States down the road. As well as we hope that you will continue to encourage the Bangladeshi government to find the best use of their natural resources, in particular the great stores of gas, natural gas, that we believe are there.

And with that, I appreciate you being here again. I yield back the balance of my time.

REP. GILMAN: Thank you, Mr. Crowley.

REP. CROWLEY: If she'd like to respond, I'd --

REP. GILMAN: Oh.

MS. ROCCA: I just want to say quickly that on the arsenic, it has been a focus; it will continue to be. NIH, EPA, Columbia University, others, are conducting and have been conducting research surveys for quite a while. And we will continue to work with the governments in the region because this is a very serious problem.

REP. CROWLEY: Mr. Chairman, if I could just --

REP. GILMAN: Sure.

REP. CROWLEY: Would you just also comment on the Asian University for Women and your thoughts on that, and anything you might be able to add to it? Asian University for Women -- the proposal by the Bangladeshi government to establish a university outside Dhaka for women. I don't know if you're familiar with it at all, if you're not --

MS. ROCCA: I'm afraid I'm not. But I will --

REP. CROWLEY: We'll have to talk about that. But thank you, Ms. Rocca.

MS. ROCCA: -- I will find out about it.

REP. GILMAN: Thank you, Mr. Crowley.

The gentlelady from Virginia, Ms. Davis.

REP. JO ANN DAVIS (D-VA): Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

And thank you, Madam Secretary, for being here to fill us in on what's going on.

I had an opportunity to visit Afghanistan the week before last, and to see a little bit about our ongoing operations and the reconstruction of their government. I also had the opportunity to meet with several of the Afghanistan women. And in meeting with them, you know, we were asking what was important to them. Education was one subject that was very important. In fact, they thought it was critical to the reconstruction of their country. And they really appreciate the supplies and, you know, the tools and all that we've sent over, but their main problem, they said, is they have the supplies, the equipment; they don't have the teachers. I'd like you to comment on that.

And the other thing is, if you were to outline the three most critical things that we could do to aid in reconstruction and stabilizing their government, what would they be?

MS. ROCCA: Let me start by saying that the plight of women in Afghanistan has been of great concern before recent events. It is --

REP. GILMAN: Ms. Rocca, could you put the mike a little closer to you?

MS. ROCCA: Oh. Sorry.

REP. GILMAN: Thank you.

MS. ROCCA: Is that better?

We are -- it is one of our priorities in Afghanistan. And we have a number of projections which we're beginning to help women, starting from, for example, just the humanitarian assistance, which a lot of it is aimed at women and children, mothers and children, which, sort of to provide just the basic needs, is a beginning. But in addition, we've got a number of training programs, and education is one of them. We've got an Afghan women's advocacy training program. We've got an Afghan women lawyer training program, a teacher training --

REP. J.A. DAVIS: Did you say lawyer?

MS. ROCCA: Lawyers, yeah. A teacher training project. We did the refurbishment of the University of Kabul specifically with women in mind. We did an Afghan -- we're doing an Afghan oral history project in which women are playing a big part. We've got an Afghan women in government program, and we also have a number of small grants which are directed there.

There's always more that can be done, but it is something that is a high priority.

REP. J.A. DAVIS: I don't mean to interrupt here, but I guess what I was talking about is not already the adult women that maybe have had some education, but I'm talking the young -- the girls, and even the boys, because they said they just don't have the teachers. And I guess my concern is future generations to make sure we don't end up back in the same situation we've been in years past.

MS. ROCCA: Which is one of the reasons we have the teacher training project -- program --

REP. J.A. DAVIS: Gotcha.

MS. ROCCA: -- specifically for that, with that end in mind.

REP. J.A. DAVIS: But I think the problem was that nobody will pay the teachers. That's why they don't have the teachers. That's what they told us; there's no pay. They can't get paid, so they don't teach.

MS. ROCCA: Our funding is going, to the extent possible, through the Interim Authority, and I know that this -- the education is a priority for them, so --

REP. J.A. DAVIS: Okay. Go ahead. And if you can give me your three top priorities on -- ?

MS. ROCCA: I believe security and stability, because we can't -- we won't be able to do any reconstruction without it. Obviously, education is very high on the list. There are so many to choose from.

REP. J.A. DAVIS: I know.

MS. ROCCA: We've got -- and when I talk about security, we're talking about not just the military; we're talking about the police, we're talking about the judicial reforms -- there are a whole lot of sub-headers that come into these three issues that you've mentioned. And I think humanitarian assistance, because there is still a major need for humanitarian assistance. And we've got large numbers of refugees, unexpectedly large numbers of refugees going back, which are also very high priority, to -- to maintain the humanitarian --

REP. J.A. DAVIS: It was encouraging to see some parts of the country where crops were beginning to grow again that were not poppy crops. And hopefully we can help Mr. Karzai see fit to alleviate (sic) all the poppy.

MS. ROCCA: That's one of the projects that we also have in mind. Obviously, the opium production is a very high priority. And it is one where we'll be working with the British. The British have taken the lead on this. We're working with them. In fact, a number of nations are taking roles in all this. This is not just a U.S. project, this is really an international effort. And we managed to eradicate 15 percent of the spring crop. We've got projects, which maybe isn't enough, but was a success, given the circumstances we were operating under. And there is assistance previewed in the supplemental for dealing with the fall crop. So anything you can to do to help move the supplemental forward would also be appreciated --

REP. J.A. DAVIS: Should have talked to you before this morning. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

REP. GILMAN: The time of the gentle lady has expired. Thank you, Ms. Davis.

Mr. Rohrabacher.

REP. ROHRABACHER: Thank you very much.

First and foremost, let me ask, does the United States support the right of the people of Kashmir to a plebiscite to determine their own destiny?

MS. ROCCA: (Pause.) Mr. Rohrabacher, as you know, the U.S. supported successive U.N. efforts in --

REP. ROHRABACHER: That's not what I'm -- I am not -- I am asking you whether or not we support it.

MS. ROCCA: The --

REP. ROHRABACHER: There shouldn't have to have a big, long explanation. Do we or don't we?

MS. ROCCA: Well, the Simla agreement in '72, India and Pakistan reached an agreement that it would be a bilateral issue. We support India and Pakistan, and we're working towards getting these two countries to the table to resolve the issue.

REP. ROHRABACHER: Mr. Chairman, let me note that when the United States government can say "Yes" to the answer of "Should these people be able to control their own destiny through a democratic election?" the people of that region will begin respecting us again. Right now, no wonder they don't believe that we believe in democracy and believe in people's right to vote when we hedge on fundamental issues like that. I think that's a disgrace, and I think this administration better re-examine that position.

In terms of Afghanistan, let me just say that I don't buy the administration -- if that's the administration position -- that we have done everything we can that is high priority for us to get rid of the poppy crops in Afghanistan. You're telling us we eradicated 15 percent of the crop? And that's something we should be proud of? Let me -- let -- just so you will know, I've spent a lot of time and effort -- we had the technological capability of wiping out 90 percent of that crop, and some of us were pushing to do that.

And obviously, don't tell me that it's a high priority for this administration if we're leaving it up to the British. That's just something to hide behind. Again, 15 percent crop eradication, all that money, all that drug money now in the hands of very evil forces in that part of the world, including the forces trying to destabilize Pakistan, is not an accomplishment we should be proud of.

In terms of the way we've been handling Afghanistan, first of all, let me ask you this. For the years -- for many years I've been involved in the Afghan issue, and people in the State Department over and over again were undermining the efforts of those of us who were trying to help those resisting the Taliban. Are those people who actively undermined the resistance to the Taliban still employed at the State Department?

MS. ROCCA: Mr. Rohrabacher, I don't know what people you're talking about. And I know it has never been the policy of the administration to undermine people who are working against the Taliban.

REP. ROHRABACHER: Okay. Oh. There wasn't a policy of the State Department to put all of that aid, all of our aid through Taliban- controlled areas and starve the areas not controlled by the Taliban? That wasn't the position of the last administration?

MS. ROCCA: No assistance went directly to the Taliban.

REP. ROHRABACHER: It went to NGOs who were distributing in Taliban areas. Of course. Yeah, it didn't go directly to the Taliban. You're very diplomatic, just like the State Department's always very diplomatic, but let me get down to fundamentals. The bottom line is, being diplomatic doesn't obscure the truth. Either we believe in democracy, either you believe in eradicating the heroin production so evil forces don't have it, either we believe in people having the right to control their own destiny or we don't. And no amount of diplomatic terms is going to change that.

I was disappointed in the heavy-handed way that the king of Afghanistan was handled. It became very clear to the people -- you say that the loya jirga was essentially a democratic process. Boy, that "essentially" certainly is a word that really excuses a lot of, let's say, overt and covert pressure on the system. Just from -- again, from someone who's been involved, I -- and for many other people who were involved, it appeared that the king -- had they had their choice, the people would have gone with the king.

Let me ask you this. If indeed we do have, as you say -- by the way, I don't think we've facilitated democracy, I think we've facilitated Karzai coming to power. And again, if we're going to have the respect of the people of that area, we've got to believe in democracy. We've got to believe in what we supposedly believe in. Our government should represent that.

Let me ask you this about -- you said we are for free and fair elections and this is facilitating democracy.

Two years from now, are we going to support a free and fair election in Afghanistan, and will the king be able to run as a candidate in that election?

MS. ROCCA: Mr. Rohrabacher, I think we have stated, from the president on down, that the United States is in Afghanistan for the long haul, that we intend to help the Afghan people. And according to the Bonn agreement, as laid out by the Bonn agreement, there are supposed to be elections after two years, and of course we will support free and fair election in Afghanistan.

REP. ROHRABACHER: And the king's right to run in those elections?

MS. ROCCA: Anybody's right to run --

REP. ROHRABACHER: So two years from now, if the people of Afghanistan choose to have the king or a member of the royal family as their leader, if they choose them through a free election, we will recognize that, and we recognize the right to choose that option.

REP. GILMAN: The gentleman's time is expired. Mr. Pitts.

REP. PITTS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Madam Secretary, what has the administration done to raise the concern about Hindu extremists in India? I speak for instance of Gujarat and the destabilizing efforts along the Pakistan-India border in Kashmir?

MS. ROCCA: Mr. Pitts, the entire issue of Gujarat is one that has been of great concern to us. It's one that we have been following very closely. Immediately after it happened, our officers from Mumbai went down to observe the situation themselves, and we were very quick, and continue to express our concern, our real sympathy for the people who underwent this horrible event.

REP. PITTS: Did we make a public statement -- did the State Department make a public statement condemning that violence?

MS. ROCCA: We did. We condemned the violence, and we also expressed condolences for the families and the people who have been affected by this violence. We have been following it closely. Our officers have gone down to monitor the situation themselves. It will figure highly in our religious freedom report.

But it is also something which is of concern to the government of India themselves. This is not --

REP. PITTS: Yes, I understand that. I met with human rights activists from the region last month, and they were not aware that our government had made a public statement. Can you provide me with that statement?

MS. ROCCA: I'd be happy to.

REP. PITTS: I'll be happy to give that to them.

The administration took a bold step in the Middle East by outlining a plan and process for peace. Has the administration considered doing the same for Kashmir?

MS. ROCCA: Our position on this is that no outside government can impose any peace plan on the two nations involved. The two nations involved need to get together and talk about it themselves. They need to work this out. It's not something that can be superimposed from the outside by any nation. We are working, however, to get both sides to the table, and we have made it very clear to both sides that we don't think it can be resolved without dialogue.

REP. PITTS: Why isn't India more receptive to more open dialogue on Kashmir with the international community?

MS. ROCCA: Well, the current situation -- the current crisis right now needs to be defused first. India has said that when there is a peaceful situation they are willing to talk about all issues, including Kashmir.

REP. PITTS: They are willing to talk about --?

MS. ROCCA: All issues that exist between India and Pakistan, including Kashmir. But we need to see a -- steps, serious steps being taken towards deescalation first.

REP. PITTS: Okay, let me proceed to -- I only have five minutes here. How much of the aid money committed to Afghanistan has actually been given to their government to implement assistance programs? And how long will it be before the committed money is sent there? It seems like the sooner we get money there the better. It allows the Afghans to see the actual results from our presence and involvements. And with the assassination of the vice president, the accidental deaths by villagers by military operations, there's a growing antagonism towards the United States, and I think the sooner the better.

MS. ROCCA: As you know, our overall contribution was -- as in Tokyo, for example, it's 294 million (dollars) pledged in January. And of those funds pledged, USAID's planned level up to now has reached 224 million (dollars) -- for relief, recovery and reconstruction activities in Afghanistan. Of that amount, USAID has obligated or committed 166 million (dollars) for food, for non-food aid and reconstruction activities and has firm plans for a further 47 million (dollars), and has 10 million (dollars) left in reserve. There is a request for additional assistance in the supplemental bill as well. And we are also -- we have also provided, I believe disbursed already over 107 million (dollars) for the returning refugees.

REP. PITTS: One final question: What is the United States doing to help ensure the rights of religious minorities in Bangladesh?

MS. ROCCA: We -- this is an issue that we take very seriously and that we have extensively investigated. This is something which is not new. Every case that has come to the embassy's attention, where they have been able to, they have gone out and investigated. Many of them have turned out not to be -- have turned out to be -- have other issues involved, like personal reprisals and regional disputes. But in those issues where we found any human rights abuses, we have raised them, and continue to raise them. And they figure in our human rights report.

REP. GILMAN: The gentleman's time has expired. Mr. Chabot.

REP. CHABOT: I thank the chair, and appreciate your testimony here this morning. I'd like to ask -- and I'll keep my questions relatively brief, because I know we have got a vote on the floor. But Bangladesh, it is my understanding, has been particularly helpful in various peacekeeping missions around the world, being willing to commit troops and doing particularly helpful things in that area. I know that one of the key industries relative to the economy in Bangladesh is the textile industry, and their access to markets around the world. Are there any administration or administrative actions that could be taken that might increase those opportunities for Bangladesh to get a fair shake at making their products available to Americans here?

MS. ROCCA: Congressman, Bangladesh's portion of the textile market is already considerable, and it has gone up steadily. The issue of providing them ore tariffs is one that we discussed. I can't say that we hold out too much hope, but the fact of the matter is that these tariffs are going to disappear in a couple of years. So what we have been doing is we have been working with the government of Bangladesh and talking to them about reconfiguring their industry in such a way so that they position themselves to be competitive when those quotas go away, because that's coming -- it's right around the corner -- it's just a year and a half away. And we feel very much that they need to both diversify their industries and also to essentially position themselves to be more competitive.

REP. CHABOT: Thank you. Also, what's being done to explore Bangladesh's untapped oil and natural gas resources, and would this not provide badly needed economic investment in Bangladesh, and also getting additional oil reserves on the market would help the United States and many other countries around the world -- so could you address that briefly?

MS. ROCCA: Yes, certainly. The gas reserves in Bangladesh, by U.S. company estimates, are considerable, and we have been encouraging the government of Bangladesh to use those reserves to exploit the gas that they have for the very reasons you cited. It would certainly be an important injection into the economy, bring in foreign investment, et cetera. It is an issue which is very complicated and very touchy in Bangladesh, and it is one which the current government has submitted for review. They have got a commission studying it. And we are hopeful, and we continue to work with them that there will eventually be a breakthrough, and that we'll find that they will be able to exploit the natural resource which they have and which is so promising for foreign investment in their country.

REP. CHABOT: Thank you very much. Mr. Chairman, I'll yield back the balance of my time.

REP. GILMAN: I thank the gentleman. Mr. Royce.

REP. ROYCE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Assistant secretary, on June the 5th the State Department issued a blanket travel warning on India, and soon after I, along with Jim McDermott, wrote to Secretary Powell warning of the damaging effects that that travel warning was having on commercial ties between the United States and India. And, as you know, on June 26th, the State Department went halfway there and revised its travel warnings for Americans, to defer "all but essential travel" to India was the new language. And I know Secretary Powell will be in the region soon, and I hope with the administration's continued hard work conditions will warrant a complete lifting of that travel ban.

Also, press reports indicate that the U.S. and India have seen a flurry of joint military exercises. And when you were in India in May, U.S. and Indian paratroopers participated in the largest combined military exercises between two countries. Indian officers, I understand, will observe the cold weather exercise that we are going to have in Alaska this winter and -- or later this year. And these exercises I think are an important aspect of our foreign policy, and I was going to ask you to comment on the administration's military-to- military plans with India, which you did touch on in your testimony.

And, lastly, you also touched on education reform in Pakistan. And I know President Musharraf has announced his intention to reform madrassas, and those schools where radicalism and anti-Western lessons are taught. I know that the AP reported recently that the government had curtailed funding to those madrassas whose students or where the head of the madrassa had been linked to militancy. But the question I have is we know there's over 7,000 of these schools for sure that are funded by Gulf State money -- by Saudi sources and sources in other countries. And I was going to ask how can we cut off those resources that go into fund this type of training? And how do we in the United States take action to establish or help establish a modern education system in South Asia with reading and writing and arithmetic -- not jihad -- as the subject matters?

MS. ROCCA: Thank you. These are all very important questions. Let me start quickly with the travel warning and tell you that this is something which we are looking at. It is constantly under review, and I will take back your recommendations. I just want to reiterate something which I know you know, but it was not taken lightly in the first place. There were serious concerns that brought on initial travel warning. But, as I said, it's constantly under review and we are looking at it right now.

Military-to-military cooperation with India has moved very quickly and has been very successful. We have a number of initiatives underway. For example, we have got a defense policy group which meets to discuss these issues. We have strategic framework dialogues. We have -- and the military exercises. And in fact India -- we have had new port calls to India which we didn't used to have. And India is helping in Operation Enduring Freedom by -- with patrols of the Straits of Malacca. So we have got a really dynamic military-to- military cooperation going with India, and it's -- but it's only part of a broader relationship where we feel that on many, many fronts we are moving forward to make this an all-encompassing relationship.

On the education reform in Pakistan, there are a number of points you touched on. The -- obviously this is a very high priority -- frankly, this was a high priority for General Musharraf when he came into office. It is something that they have been working on since -- and obviously current events have made it a -- put it into sharper focus. Some of that thanks to help from the United States, which we have been providing assistance for the education. We had sanctions on Pakistan before and we are not able to help them in education -- help the government on their education program, and the government school system is broken. The public school system is totally broken.

The initiative on the madrassas is something that we welcome, but it is not something that we have asked for or that we imposed. It is what President Musharraf himself has said needs to be done in order to turn Pakistan around. The funding mechanisms is something that the of Pakistan is looking at. And in fact I believe they have -- they are requiring that funding be disclosed, that any foreign funding be disclosed. This is something which is up to the government of Pakistan.

REP. GILMAN: The gentleman's time has expired.

REP. ROYCE: Well, I wanted to -- just, if I could --

REP. GILMAN: Quickly. We have one more questioner.

REP. ROYCE: In Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Afghanistan, when I was there the question was brought up repeatedly that it's Gulf State money -- it's Saudi money, you know, that is coming in to fund this -- not just in Pakistan but in the whole region. And so I just bring to the administration's attention we need to figure out a strategy for Gulf State money. It isn't the governments in the Gulf State but it is influential people in the Gulf States that are funding these jihadi schools, and we need to address it. Thank you very much.

REP. GILMAN: Thank you, Mr. Royce. One last question by Mr. Ackerman, and I want to thank the secretary for being here today, and some of us have to run to the floor. Mr. Ackerman.

REP. ACKERMAN: It was asked before about the international community being involved in the issue of Jammu and Kashmir. I just wanted to say that it's the view I believe of the Indians, I am sure, that that would be outside interference in an internal matter concerning their state. But I would like to add that it's very disappointing that the Indian proposal that there be bilateral monitoring between the Indians and the Pakistanis on the line of control to make determinations whether or not there were incursions there, has been rejected by General Musharraf. And I think that that's unhelpful, and perhaps we could encourage you to encourage the secretary to mention that to him, that we think, many of us, that that would be helpful.

MS. ROCCA: Thank you.

REP. GILMAN: Thank you, Mr. Ackerman. The committee is adjourned. (Sounds gavel.)

MS. ROCCA: Thank you very much.

END

LOAD-DATE: July 19, 2002